Lakeway, TX

Hello,

I have a complaint and feel that I was taken advantage of by the court
system in Lakeway TX. It concerns my landing a small plane at Lakeway
Airport in July, of 2004. I knew that the Airport is closed after
sunset and before sunrise but I was issued a ticket by a police officer
that didn't even know what time sunset was. I wanted to pursue it
via a local television station and see if you could keep other people
from being taken advantage of. The following excerpt is from an email
that I sent to an aviation bulletin board.


"I landed at Lakeway in the middle of July, 2004. Sunset was 8:30 pm
according to the newspaper and other official records. I touched down
at about 8:20 pm and had the airplane tied down and walking away when a
policeman came up and issued me a ticket for landing after sunset. I
told him I touched down at 8:20 pm and asked him of the exact time of
sunset. He didn't know but issued me a $1200 ticket. I had 3
witnesses with sworn affidavits as to the time that I touched down but
no lawyers would touch the case because of Lakeway's reputation of
people loosing cases in court. It is a court of record and they film
all activity so if you loose you not only have to pay the ticket but
you have to pay court costs that are extremely high. They even give
tickets to people walking in the park after sunset when signs are not
in plain sight. It's $200 by the way for that offense. This happen to
a daughter and son-in-law of a local airport resident that was baby
sitting their grandchild while their daughter and son-in-law went out
to eat. They finished dinner early so they decided to go walking in
the park and was promptly issued a ticket in broad daylight for walking
in the park after sunset. They have changed the speed limit signs
overnight and have ticketed the citizens without issuing notices. If
you land anywhere close to sunset, please have accurate touchdown times
and a camera to prove your innocence. It takes more than witnesses to
even get representation for a court hearing. I finally found an AOPA
lawyer to represent me but after talking to his lawyer friends, he
convinced me to ask for deferred adjudication which I did. Lakeway
should abide by FAA regulations of 30 minutes before and after sunset
and should install an AWOS(Automatic Weather Observation Service) to
announce the sunset times in Lakeway because they are obviously
different than the real times."

I have been on probation with Lakeway since July of 2004 and am off
this month. I didn't want to pursue any action until now for fear
that they would automatically raise my fine back to the $1200. I ended
up with 6 months probation and a 750 dollar fine. Please consider
following up on this injustice. I will do anything to help spread the
word about the way the community of Lakeway does business. By the way,
Lakeway had an official sunset link on their website that stated sunset
as being 2031 and after I was issued the ticket the link was taken out
of the website. Is it a coverup? Thanks

The residents around Lakeway have been trying for a long time to get it
closed, they even have purposely placed deer feeders just off the airport
property near both ends of the runway. I used to fly out of their quite
frequently but now avoid the place like the plague :-(


"birdman" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hello,

I have a complaint and feel that I was taken advantage of by the court
system in Lakeway TX. It concerns my landing a small plane at Lakeway
Airport in July, of 2004. I knew that the Airport is closed after
sunset and before sunrise but I was issued a ticket by a police officer
that didn't even know what time sunset was. I wanted to pursue it
via a local television station and see if you could keep other people
from being taken advantage of. The following excerpt is from an email
that I sent to an aviation bulletin board.


"I landed at Lakeway in the middle of July, 2004. Sunset was 8:30 pm
according to the newspaper and other official records. I touched down
at about 8:20 pm and had the airplane tied down and walking away when a
policeman came up and issued me a ticket for landing after sunset. I
told him I touched down at 8:20 pm and asked him of the exact time of
sunset. He didn't know but issued me a $1200 ticket. I had 3
witnesses with sworn affidavits as to the time that I touched down but
no lawyers would touch the case because of Lakeway's reputation of
people loosing cases in court. It is a court of record and they film
all activity so if you loose you not only have to pay the ticket but
you have to pay court costs that are extremely high. They even give
tickets to people walking in the park after sunset when signs are not
in plain sight. It's $200 by the way for that offense. This happen to
a daughter and son-in-law of a local airport resident that was baby
sitting their grandchild while their daughter and son-in-law went out
to eat. They finished dinner early so they decided to go walking in
the park and was promptly issued a ticket in broad daylight for walking
in the park after sunset. They have changed the speed limit signs
overnight and have ticketed the citizens without issuing notices. If
you land anywhere close to sunset, please have accurate touchdown times
and a camera to prove your innocence. It takes more than witnesses to
even get representation for a court hearing. I finally found an AOPA
lawyer to represent me but after talking to his lawyer friends, he
convinced me to ask for deferred adjudication which I did. Lakeway
should abide by FAA regulations of 30 minutes before and after sunset
and should install an AWOS(Automatic Weather Observation Service) to
announce the sunset times in Lakeway because they are obviously
different than the real times."

I have been on probation with Lakeway since July of 2004 and am off
this month. I didn't want to pursue any action until now for fear
that they would automatically raise my fine back to the $1200. I ended
up with 6 months probation and a 750 dollar fine. Please consider
following up on this injustice. I will do anything to help spread the
word about the way the community of Lakeway does business. By the way,
Lakeway had an official sunset link on their website that stated sunset
as being 2031 and after I was issued the ticket the link was taken out
of the website. Is it a coverup? Thanks

When I was on final I heard "Airport closed". The person transmitting
the message didn't identify which airport and I took it for granted
that it couldn't be Lakeway because the sun was still shining so bright
that I couldn't look at it. I glanced at my watch out of habit during
rollout and it was about 2018L. There has to be a citizen of lakeway
that observes the airport and immedialely calls the cops when someone
lands somewhere close to sunset. At any rate thanks for your reply. I
changed my name from birdman to Russ by the way. I'm the same person
that wrote the original message. Thanks


John E. Carty wrote:
The residents around Lakeway have been trying for a long time to get
it
closed, they even have purposely placed deer feeders just off the
airport
property near both ends of the runway. I used to fly out of their
quite
frequently but now avoid the place like the plague :-(


"birdman" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hello,

I have a complaint and feel that I was taken advantage of by the
court
system in Lakeway TX. It concerns my landing a small plane at
Lakeway
Airport in July, of 2004. I knew that the Airport is closed after
sunset and before sunrise but I was issued a ticket by a police
officer
that didn't even know what time sunset was. I wanted to pursue it
via a local television station and see if you could keep other
people
from being taken advantage of. The following excerpt is from an
email
that I sent to an aviation bulletin board.


"I landed at Lakeway in the middle of July, 2004. Sunset was 8:30
pm
according to the newspaper and other official records. I touched
down
at about 8:20 pm and had the airplane tied down and walking away
when a
policeman came up and issued me a ticket for landing after sunset.
I
told him I touched down at 8:20 pm and asked him of the exact time
of
sunset. He didn't know but issued me a $1200 ticket. I had 3
witnesses with sworn affidavits as to the time that I touched down
but
no lawyers would touch the case because of Lakeway's reputation of
people loosing cases in court. It is a court of record and they
film
all activity so if you loose you not only have to pay the ticket
but
you have to pay court costs that are extremely high. They even
give
tickets to people walking in the park after sunset when signs are
not
in plain sight. It's $200 by the way for that offense. This happen
to
a daughter and son-in-law of a local airport resident that was baby
sitting their grandchild while their daughter and son-in-law went
out
to eat. They finished dinner early so they decided to go walking
in
the park and was promptly issued a ticket in broad daylight for
walking
in the park after sunset. They have changed the speed limit signs
overnight and have ticketed the citizens without issuing notices.
If
you land anywhere close to sunset, please have accurate touchdown
times
and a camera to prove your innocence. It takes more than witnesses
to
even get representation for a court hearing. I finally found an
AOPA
lawyer to represent me but after talking to his lawyer friends, he
convinced me to ask for deferred adjudication which I did. Lakeway
should abide by FAA regulations of 30 minutes before and after
sunset
and should install an AWOS(Automatic Weather Observation Service)
to
announce the sunset times in Lakeway because they are obviously
different than the real times."

I have been on probation with Lakeway since July of 2004 and am off
this month. I didn't want to pursue any action until now for fear
that they would automatically raise my fine back to the $1200. I
ended
up with 6 months probation and a 750 dollar fine. Please consider
following up on this injustice. I will do anything to help spread
the
word about the way the community of Lakeway does business. By the
way,
Lakeway had an official sunset link on their website that stated
sunset
as being 2031 and after I was issued the ticket the link was taken
out
of the website. Is it a coverup? Thanks

I swear this seems like I've read this before. Did someone just post on
this like two months ago or something. Am I going crazy?
"Russ" wrote in message
ups.com...
When I was on final I heard "Airport closed". The person transmitting
the message didn't identify which airport and I took it for granted
that it couldn't be Lakeway because the sun was still shining so bright
that I couldn't look at it. I glanced at my watch out of habit during
rollout and it was about 2018L. There has to be a citizen of lakeway
that observes the airport and immedialely calls the cops when someone
lands somewhere close to sunset. At any rate thanks for your reply. I
changed my name from birdman to Russ by the way. I'm the same person
that wrote the original message. Thanks


John E. Carty wrote:
The residents around Lakeway have been trying for a long time to get
it
closed, they even have purposely placed deer feeders just off the
airport
property near both ends of the runway. I used to fly out of their
quite
frequently but now avoid the place like the plague :-(


"birdman" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hello,

I have a complaint and feel that I was taken advantage of by the
court
system in Lakeway TX. It concerns my landing a small plane at
Lakeway
Airport in July, of 2004. I knew that the Airport is closed after
sunset and before sunrise but I was issued a ticket by a police
officer
that didn't even know what time sunset was. I wanted to pursue it
via a local television station and see if you could keep other
people
from being taken advantage of. The following excerpt is from an
email
that I sent to an aviation bulletin board.


"I landed at Lakeway in the middle of July, 2004. Sunset was 8:30
pm
according to the newspaper and other official records. I touched
down
at about 8:20 pm and had the airplane tied down and walking away
when a
policeman came up and issued me a ticket for landing after sunset.
I
told him I touched down at 8:20 pm and asked him of the exact time
of
sunset. He didn't know but issued me a $1200 ticket. I had 3
witnesses with sworn affidavits as to the time that I touched down
but
no lawyers would touch the case because of Lakeway's reputation of
people loosing cases in court. It is a court of record and they
film
all activity so if you loose you not only have to pay the ticket
but
you have to pay court costs that are extremely high. They even
give
tickets to people walking in the park after sunset when signs are
not
in plain sight. It's $200 by the way for that offense. This happen
to
a daughter and son-in-law of a local airport resident that was baby
sitting their grandchild while their daughter and son-in-law went
out
to eat. They finished dinner early so they decided to go walking
in
the park and was promptly issued a ticket in broad daylight for
walking
in the park after sunset. They have changed the speed limit signs
overnight and have ticketed the citizens without issuing notices.
If
you land anywhere close to sunset, please have accurate touchdown
times
and a camera to prove your innocence. It takes more than witnesses
to
even get representation for a court hearing. I finally found an
AOPA
lawyer to represent me but after talking to his lawyer friends, he
convinced me to ask for deferred adjudication which I did. Lakeway
should abide by FAA regulations of 30 minutes before and after
sunset
and should install an AWOS(Automatic Weather Observation Service)
to
announce the sunset times in Lakeway because they are obviously
different than the real times."

I have been on probation with Lakeway since July of 2004 and am off
this month. I didn't want to pursue any action until now for fear
that they would automatically raise my fine back to the $1200. I
ended
up with 6 months probation and a 750 dollar fine. Please consider
following up on this injustice. I will do anything to help spread
the
word about the way the community of Lakeway does business. By the
way,
Lakeway had an official sunset link on their website that stated
sunset
as being 2031 and after I was issued the ticket the link was taken
out
of the website. Is it a coverup? Thanks





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BTW, there's nothing saying you can't buzz the airport after sunset. Even if
there was a law, they couldn't get your tail number at night.
"Slick" wrote in message ...
I swear this seems like I've read this before. Did someone just post on
this like two months ago or something. Am I going crazy?
"Russ" wrote in message
ups.com...
When I was on final I heard "Airport closed". The person transmitting
the message didn't identify which airport and I took it for granted
that it couldn't be Lakeway because the sun was still shining so bright
that I couldn't look at it. I glanced at my watch out of habit during
rollout and it was about 2018L. There has to be a citizen of lakeway
that observes the airport and immedialely calls the cops when someone
lands somewhere close to sunset. At any rate thanks for your reply. I
changed my name from birdman to Russ by the way. I'm the same person
that wrote the original message. Thanks


John E. Carty wrote:
The residents around Lakeway have been trying for a long time to get
it
closed, they even have purposely placed deer feeders just off the
airport
property near both ends of the runway. I used to fly out of their
quite
frequently but now avoid the place like the plague :-(


"birdman" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hello,

I have a complaint and feel that I was taken advantage of by the
court
system in Lakeway TX. It concerns my landing a small plane at
Lakeway
Airport in July, of 2004. I knew that the Airport is closed after
sunset and before sunrise but I was issued a ticket by a police
officer
that didn't even know what time sunset was. I wanted to pursue it
via a local television station and see if you could keep other
people
from being taken advantage of. The following excerpt is from an
email
that I sent to an aviation bulletin board.


"I landed at Lakeway in the middle of July, 2004. Sunset was 8:30
pm
according to the newspaper and other official records. I touched
down
at about 8:20 pm and had the airplane tied down and walking away
when a
policeman came up and issued me a ticket for landing after sunset.
I
told him I touched down at 8:20 pm and asked him of the exact time
of
sunset. He didn't know but issued me a $1200 ticket. I had 3
witnesses with sworn affidavits as to the time that I touched down
but
no lawyers would touch the case because of Lakeway's reputation of
people loosing cases in court. It is a court of record and they
film
all activity so if you loose you not only have to pay the ticket
but
you have to pay court costs that are extremely high. They even
give
tickets to people walking in the park after sunset when signs are
not
in plain sight. It's $200 by the way for that offense. This happen
to
a daughter and son-in-law of a local airport resident that was baby
sitting their grandchild while their daughter and son-in-law went
out
to eat. They finished dinner early so they decided to go walking
in
the park and was promptly issued a ticket in broad daylight for
walking
in the park after sunset. They have changed the speed limit signs
overnight and have ticketed the citizens without issuing notices.
If
you land anywhere close to sunset, please have accurate touchdown
times
and a camera to prove your innocence. It takes more than witnesses
to
even get representation for a court hearing. I finally found an
AOPA
lawyer to represent me but after talking to his lawyer friends, he
convinced me to ask for deferred adjudication which I did. Lakeway
should abide by FAA regulations of 30 minutes before and after
sunset
and should install an AWOS(Automatic Weather Observation Service)
to
announce the sunset times in Lakeway because they are obviously
different than the real times."

I have been on probation with Lakeway since July of 2004 and am off
this month. I didn't want to pursue any action until now for fear
that they would automatically raise my fine back to the $1200. I
ended
up with 6 months probation and a 750 dollar fine. Please consider
following up on this injustice. I will do anything to help spread
the
word about the way the community of Lakeway does business. By the
way,
Lakeway had an official sunset link on their website that stated
sunset
as being 2031 and after I was issued the ticket the link was taken
out
of the website. Is it a coverup? Thanks





----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
=----



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The fact is... its a small town.. its an affluent town... and they dont
really give a rats ass about anyone who doesnt 1) live there and 2) have
lots of money. Your jury trial is going to be made up of Lakeway
residents.. And they charge an outrageous amount for court costs in
order to discourage trials by court/encourage the plea.

As soon as you accept the fact that they REALLY dont WANT outsiders and
you take their business elsewhere, they will be happier, and you will
have less grief in your life.

Your only real recourse would be to get a DOJ or Texas Ranger
investigation into the law enforcement practices in that town..and that
would involve much more than just the airport curfew. Ask around.. if
you want to pick the fight that bad..

Dave

birdman wrote:

Hello,

I have a complaint and feel that I was taken advantage of by the court
system in Lakeway TX. It concerns my landing a small plane at Lakeway
Airport in July, of 2004. I knew that the Airport is closed after
sunset and before sunrise but I was issued a ticket by a police officer
that didn't even know what time sunset was. I wanted to pursue it
via a local television station and see if you could keep other people
from being taken advantage of. The following excerpt is from an email
that I sent to an aviation bulletin board.


"I landed at Lakeway in the middle of July, 2004. Sunset was 8:30 pm
according to the newspaper and other official records. I touched down
at about 8:20 pm and had the airplane tied down and walking away when a
policeman came up and issued me a ticket for landing after sunset. I
told him I touched down at 8:20 pm and asked him of the exact time of
sunset. He didn't know but issued me a $1200 ticket. I had 3
witnesses with sworn affidavits as to the time that I touched down but
no lawyers would touch the case because of Lakeway's reputation of
people loosing cases in court. It is a court of record and they film
all activity so if you loose you not only have to pay the ticket but
you have to pay court costs that are extremely high. They even give
tickets to people walking in the park after sunset when signs are not
in plain sight. It's $200 by the way for that offense. This happen to
a daughter and son-in-law of a local airport resident that was baby
sitting their grandchild while their daughter and son-in-law went out
to eat. They finished dinner early so they decided to go walking in
the park and was promptly issued a ticket in broad daylight for walking
in the park after sunset. They have changed the speed limit signs
overnight and have ticketed the citizens without issuing notices. If
you land anywhere close to sunset, please have accurate touchdown times
and a camera to prove your innocence. It takes more than witnesses to
even get representation for a court hearing. I finally found an AOPA
lawyer to represent me but after talking to his lawyer friends, he
convinced me to ask for deferred adjudication which I did. Lakeway
should abide by FAA regulations of 30 minutes before and after sunset
and should install an AWOS(Automatic Weather Observation Service) to
announce the sunset times in Lakeway because they are obviously
different than the real times."

I have been on probation with Lakeway since July of 2004 and am off
this month. I didn't want to pursue any action until now for fear
that they would automatically raise my fine back to the $1200. I ended
up with 6 months probation and a 750 dollar fine. Please consider
following up on this injustice. I will do anything to help spread the
word about the way the community of Lakeway does business. By the way,
Lakeway had an official sunset link on their website that stated sunset
as being 2031 and after I was issued the ticket the link was taken out
of the website. Is it a coverup? Thanks

"birdman" wrote in message
ups.com...
I have a complaint and feel that I was taken advantage of by the court
system in Lakeway TX.

I'm a little confused about what you want us to do about it?

If you truly believe that law enforcement at Lakeway is corrupt, I would
guess that's something you need to take up with the FBI. I would say that
if you cannot get a fair trial in Lakeway, that would amount to corruption.

A $1200 fine for what essentially ought to amount to a traffic infraction
seems pretty unreasonable to me. Surely there's something in the Texas
Constitution about punishments being required to fit the crime. I would
also take issue with the City making this a criminal (misdemeanor) offense,
but seeing as how they've made ALL zoning violations a criminal offense, and
seeing as how I don't actually know how common that is (in other
municipalities around the country), I won't say much more on that.

I honestly don't know anything about how appeals for something like this
work, or if they are even allowed. I would think that for a misdemeanor
offense they would be. If they are, the appeal would eventually make it out
of the Lakeway jurisdiction, to a higher state court. It seems to me that a
good lawyer would be angling for cause for appeal, during the case in
Lakeway, rather than actually expecting to have a chance to win (assuming,
of course, that your claim of a biased court is true).

As far as proving your case goes, I would expect that a record of a
departure time (you didn't happen to depart from a controlled airport, did
you?), along with your legal record of your logged time for the flight,
would be sufficient to prove that you landed before sunset.

Again, I don't know how things are in Texas, but here in the State of
Washington, one benefit (the only benefit?) of a violation being a criminal
offense rather than an infraction is that the standard of proof on the part
of law enforcement is higher. "Proof beyond a reasonable doubt" is
required, rather than the more lax "preponderance of evidence" (i.e. if it's
even just 51% against you). An officer's statement wouldn't be sufficient
in that case; he'd have to have something in the way of solid,
substantiating documentation.

In other words, the burden of proof is on the law enforcement officer, and
the case ought to follow the traditional "innocent until proven guilty"
paradigm.

As for the definition of sunset, the Lakeway ordinance specifies the
definition of sunset. You can find the definitions for August 2004 to July
2005 he
http://www.cityoflakeway.com/shared/..._Exhibit-B.pdf
Assuming July 2004 was similar to July 2005 , by their definition sunset
would have been some time between 8:27pm and 8:38 (depending on what day you
were actually cited). It appears that they simply get their data from
www.sunrisesunset.com

From a legal standpoint, it seems to me that the ticket written would
necessarily have to include the time that the officer witnessed you land,
along with whatever reference of sunset the officer is using. Otherwise,
how can they possibly expect to prove, even by a statement of the officer
(law enforcement almost always wins "your word against theirs" arguments in
court), that you landed after sunset? I would expect that a ticket not
including that information ought to be simply dismissed.

All of the above is hindsight. You apparently did not care enough about the
principle to see the case through, nor did AOPA apparently think it was
important enough to offer legal assistance. If everything was truly as
you've explained it, I would think that you'd have a good case. If you had
a good case, I would think that you wouldn't have accepted what amounts to a
plea bargain. That makes me think that there's probably aspects to the case
that you haven't shared with us that undermined your ability to defend
yourself.

I gather from various sources that Austin and its environs just isn't an
aviation-friendly area. Frankly, looking through their city ordinances, it
appears Lakeway in particular isn't very friendly to nearly anything that
could be construed as undesireable in the slightest way. I've seen CCR's
that aren't even close to being that strict.

The truth is that many airports benefit the community, and a community that
fails to appreciate that deserves to lose their airport. They WILL suffer
because of it, even if they don't realize it. Yes, that hurts us as pilots
too some times, but that's just how it goes. It sounds to me as though
there is insufficient support for the airport from the aviation community to
compete with the anti-aviation sentiment there. As pilots, we bemoan the
loss of airports wherever they happen, but frankly it doesn't do our cause
much good if we, the folks who ought to know best the difference between a
really important airport and one that really just isn't worth the trouble,
act like each and every airport is no less precious than any other.

As far as the other post mentioning deer feeders, if that's a documented
state of affairs, I would think that the FAA (if they really cared...again,
this comes down to just how important the airport is really) would apply the
same rules that prevent growing tall trees in the approach path, or siting a
landfill just off the end of the runway and have the deer feeders removed.
A person is not allowed to interfere with the safe passage of aircraft just
because that interference occurs on their own property rather than the
airport. Though, I wonder at just how much a deer feeder at each *end* of
the runway would really affect deer traffic on the runway itself. Not much,
I'd guess.

The funny thing is that the airport only gets 25 operations a day. That's
basically a dead airport already. But for anyone nearby to take offense
just plain dumb. If I recall correctly, an "operation" is a takeoff OR
landing, so on average there's actually only about a dozen takeoffs per day
(landings aren't usually very noisy), or about 1 per hour. Hardly enough
for anyone to get upset about. I've got a neighbor with a dog that barks
WAY more than that, and law enforcement couldn't care less (in spite of it
violating city, county, and state noise regulations). Of course, if the
city could make $1200 a pop citing the owner of the dog, maybe they'd take
the violation more seriously.

Sorry for the long post. There's just so much wrong about the situation,
both with respect to the apparent handling by the city, and with your
approach to your complaint, that I just had to comment on it all (or at
least the highlights).

Pete

If it is true about the Deerfeeders report it to the FAA and the FBI if you
can prove what you said. They would have to arrest them. If say the feeder
is right next to the airport instead of the other end of their property,
they just may end up in jail.
"birdman" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hello,

I have a complaint and feel that I was taken advantage of by the court
system in Lakeway TX. It concerns my landing a small plane at Lakeway
Airport in July, of 2004. I knew that the Airport is closed after
sunset and before sunrise but I was issued a ticket by a police officer
that didn't even know what time sunset was. I wanted to pursue it
via a local television station and see if you could keep other people
from being taken advantage of. The following excerpt is from an email
that I sent to an aviation bulletin board.


"I landed at Lakeway in the middle of July, 2004. Sunset was 8:30 pm
according to the newspaper and other official records. I touched down
at about 8:20 pm and had the airplane tied down and walking away when a
policeman came up and issued me a ticket for landing after sunset. I
told him I touched down at 8:20 pm and asked him of the exact time of
sunset. He didn't know but issued me a $1200 ticket. I had 3
witnesses with sworn affidavits as to the time that I touched down but
no lawyers would touch the case because of Lakeway's reputation of
people loosing cases in court. It is a court of record and they film
all activity so if you loose you not only have to pay the ticket but
you have to pay court costs that are extremely high. They even give
tickets to people walking in the park after sunset when signs are not
in plain sight. It's $200 by the way for that offense. This happen to
a daughter and son-in-law of a local airport resident that was baby
sitting their grandchild while their daughter and son-in-law went out
to eat. They finished dinner early so they decided to go walking in
the park and was promptly issued a ticket in broad daylight for walking
in the park after sunset. They have changed the speed limit signs
overnight and have ticketed the citizens without issuing notices. If
you land anywhere close to sunset, please have accurate touchdown times
and a camera to prove your innocence. It takes more than witnesses to
even get representation for a court hearing. I finally found an AOPA
lawyer to represent me but after talking to his lawyer friends, he
convinced me to ask for deferred adjudication which I did. Lakeway
should abide by FAA regulations of 30 minutes before and after sunset
and should install an AWOS(Automatic Weather Observation Service) to
announce the sunset times in Lakeway because they are obviously
different than the real times."

I have been on probation with Lakeway since July of 2004 and am off
this month. I didn't want to pursue any action until now for fear
that they would automatically raise my fine back to the $1200. I ended
up with 6 months probation and a 750 dollar fine. Please consider
following up on this injustice. I will do anything to help spread the
word about the way the community of Lakeway does business. By the way,
Lakeway had an official sunset link on their website that stated sunset
as being 2031 and after I was issued the ticket the link was taken out
of the website. Is it a coverup? Thanks

One option .. if you could get anyone interested .. would be a sting
by some national media where by someone lands 15 min before sunset
and the entire event is filmed from an angle that makes the sunset
visible.

Other than that .. I'd go to the FAA, the U.S. Attorney's office and
the Texas Attorney General's office. Sounds like a pattern of
shakedowns to me.


"birdman" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hello,

I have a complaint and feel that I was taken advantage of by the court
system in Lakeway TX. It concerns my landing a small plane at Lakeway
Airport in July, of 2004. I knew that the Airport is closed after
sunset and before sunrise but I was issued a ticket by a police officer
that didn't even know what time sunset was. I wanted to pursue it
via a local television station and see if you could keep other people
from being taken advantage of. The following excerpt is from an email
that I sent to an aviation bulletin board.


"I landed at Lakeway in the middle of July, 2004. Sunset was 8:30 pm
according to the newspaper and other official records. I touched down
at about 8:20 pm and had the airplane tied down and walking away when a
policeman came up and issued me a ticket for landing after sunset. I
told him I touched down at 8:20 pm and asked him of the exact time of
sunset. He didn't know but issued me a $1200 ticket. I had 3
witnesses with sworn affidavits as to the time that I touched down but
no lawyers would touch the case because of Lakeway's reputation of
people loosing cases in court. It is a court of record and they film
all activity so if you loose you not only have to pay the ticket but
you have to pay court costs that are extremely high. They even give
tickets to people walking in the park after sunset when signs are not
in plain sight. It's $200 by the way for that offense. This happen to
a daughter and son-in-law of a local airport resident that was baby
sitting their grandchild while their daughter and son-in-law went out
to eat. They finished dinner early so they decided to go walking in
the park and was promptly issued a ticket in broad daylight for walking
in the park after sunset. They have changed the speed limit signs
overnight and have ticketed the citizens without issuing notices. If
you land anywhere close to sunset, please have accurate touchdown times
and a camera to prove your innocence. It takes more than witnesses to
even get representation for a court hearing. I finally found an AOPA
lawyer to represent me but after talking to his lawyer friends, he
convinced me to ask for deferred adjudication which I did. Lakeway
should abide by FAA regulations of 30 minutes before and after sunset
and should install an AWOS(Automatic Weather Observation Service) to
announce the sunset times in Lakeway because they are obviously
different than the real times."

I have been on probation with Lakeway since July of 2004 and am off
this month. I didn't want to pursue any action until now for fear
that they would automatically raise my fine back to the $1200. I ended
up with 6 months probation and a 750 dollar fine. Please consider
following up on this injustice. I will do anything to help spread the
word about the way the community of Lakeway does business. By the way,
Lakeway had an official sunset link on their website that stated sunset
as being 2031 and after I was issued the ticket the link was taken out
of the website. Is it a coverup? Thanks

Birdman

Go to and check out 6.2.6 in link below. Note part about Federal Gvt
which might be an out?

We can hunt before sun rise and after sunset, log flying time before
and after, etc.

Have you checked how much and what for, any Federal Money goes to
Lakeside?

Been a long time since I landed there but do they have any kind of an
approach where you could shoot low aproaches either in the twilight
zone or after dark (say about mid night )

What you need is a old BT-13 that shakes the fillings of your teeth.

Of course if you had to make an 'emergency landing' I think the Gvt
would step in and take a part?

Think out of the box. As granddad said, don't get mad, get even )

John

http://cityoflakeway.com/tool_pop.as...04-08-16-2.pdf

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On 11 Mar 2005 19:55:49 -0800, "birdman" wrote:

Hello,

I have a complaint and feel that I was taken advantage of by the court
system in Lakeway TX. It concerns my landing a small plane at Lakeway
Airport in July, of 2004. I knew that the Airport is closed after
sunset and before sunrise but I was issued a ticket by a police officer
that didn't even know what time sunset was. I wanted to pursue it
via a local television station and see if you could keep other people
from being taken advantage of. The following excerpt is from an email
that I sent to an aviation bulletin board.


"I landed at Lakeway in the middle of July, 2004. Sunset was 8:30 pm
according to the newspaper and other official records. I touched down
at about 8:20 pm and had the airplane tied down and walking away when a
policeman came up and issued me a ticket for landing after sunset. I
told him I touched down at 8:20 pm and asked him of the exact time of
sunset. He didn't know but issued me a $1200 ticket. I had 3
witnesses with sworn affidavits as to the time that I touched down but
no lawyers would touch the case because of Lakeway's reputation of
people loosing cases in court. It is a court of record and they film
all activity so if you loose you not only have to pay the ticket but
you have to pay court costs that are extremely high. They even give
tickets to people walking in the park after sunset when signs are not
in plain sight. It's $200 by the way for that offense. This happen to
a daughter and son-in-law of a local airport resident that was baby
sitting their grandchild while their daughter and son-in-law went out
to eat. They finished dinner early so they decided to go walking in
the park and was promptly issued a ticket in broad daylight for walking
in the park after sunset. They have changed the speed limit signs
overnight and have ticketed the citizens without issuing notices. If
you land anywhere close to sunset, please have accurate touchdown times
and a camera to prove your innocence. It takes more than witnesses to
even get representation for a court hearing. I finally found an AOPA
lawyer to represent me but after talking to his lawyer friends, he
convinced me to ask for deferred adjudication which I did. Lakeway
should abide by FAA regulations of 30 minutes before and after sunset
and should install an AWOS(Automatic Weather Observation Service) to
announce the sunset times in Lakeway because they are obviously
different than the real times."

I have been on probation with Lakeway since July of 2004 and am off
this month. I didn't want to pursue any action until now for fear
that they would automatically raise my fine back to the $1200. I ended
up with 6 months probation and a 750 dollar fine. Please consider
following up on this injustice. I will do anything to help spread the
word about the way the community of Lakeway does business. By the way,
Lakeway had an official sunset link on their website that stated sunset
as being 2031 and after I was issued the ticket the link was taken out
of the website. Is it a coverup? Thanks