TSIO 360 EB running lean at 12000

Hi all,
Yesterday I was flying on a Seneca II equipped with TSIO 360EB Teledyne
Continental engines.
The first flight (Dusseldorf-Milan) took 2 hours, FL 140, everything
working perfectly adn according to the manual.
The second flight (Milan-Rome) had the following inconvenience on BOTH
engines:
At FL 130 29" MAP 2400rpm the indicated fuel flow was 12 Gal/Hours
but the Mixture control lever were in the "Full Rich" position.
I could not move them to lean mixture since the fuel flow was going
down to less than 12. The speed was correct (about 170 KTAS), and the
engines were both a little bit too hot, but not that much.
I repeat it was behaving like this for BOTH engines. And this
sound strange and new to me..

I still have to fly again with the same plane, and it will be checked
by a specialist before, but, is there anybody who has an idea about
what was happening ?

Silvio

Several questions:

What do you mean by hot? What were the CHT's and Oil Temperatures? What do
they normally run?

What % of full power is 29" and 2400 RPM? I realize you're flying a
turbocharged aircraft, but 24" and 2400 RPM is usually something like 75%,
so I'd guess 29" and 2400 RPM is well over 75%.

What is the recommended max cruise setting for these engines?

Am I correct in assuming these are Continental 210 hp engines?




"Silvio Mecucci" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi all,
Yesterday I was flying on a Seneca II equipped with TSIO 360EB Teledyne
Continental engines.
The first flight (Dusseldorf-Milan) took 2 hours, FL 140, everything
working perfectly adn according to the manual.
The second flight (Milan-Rome) had the following inconvenience on BOTH
engines:
At FL 130 29" MAP 2400rpm the indicated fuel flow was 12 Gal/Hours
but the Mixture control lever were in the "Full Rich" position.
I could not move them to lean mixture since the fuel flow was going
down to less than 12. The speed was correct (about 170 KTAS), and the
engines were both a little bit too hot, but not that much.
I repeat it was behaving like this for BOTH engines. And this
sound strange and new to me..

I still have to fly again with the same plane, and it will be checked
by a specialist before, but, is there anybody who has an idea about
what was happening ?

Silvio

"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
...
Several questions:

What do you mean by hot? What were the CHT's and Oil Temperatures? What
do they normally run?

Good questions. The original post was certainly short on details regarding
what the pilot feels is normal versus what was actually happening.

What % of full power is 29" and 2400 RPM? I realize you're flying a
turbocharged aircraft, but 24" and 2400 RPM is usually something like 75%,
so I'd guess 29" and 2400 RPM is well over 75%.

That all depends on the turbocharging. If the maximum boost is higher than
30", 29"/2400 RPM could easily be in the 75% range.

That said, as far as I know these particular engines aren't boosted very
high (but I'm almost entirely unfamiliar with them, so that doesn't mean
much ). But just as a reference point, the turbocharged IO-540 in my
airplane has a maximum boost of 34", with a typical "high cruise" power
setting being 29"/2300 RPM, for about 75% power.

Pete

Peter Duniho wrote:

/snip/
That said, as far as I know these particular engines aren't boosted very
high (but I'm almost entirely unfamiliar with them, so that doesn't mean
much ). But just as a reference point, the turbocharged IO-540 in my
airplane has a maximum boost of 34", with a typical "high cruise" power
setting being 29"/2300 RPM, for about 75% power.

Pete



Pete,

The TSIO-360EB is boosted to 40", quite high for a general aviation engine.

Happy Flying!
Scott Skylane

Kyle Boatright ha scritto:

Several questions:

What do you mean by hot? What were the CHT's and Oil Temperatures? What=
do
they normally run?
Maximum Oil temperatures 240=B0 F
Maximum CHT 460=B0 F

We were running about 210=B0 F for Oil and 420=B0F for CHT.

Anyway.. this was in the middle fourth quarter of the indication ranges
something like "hot".. :-)
Normally, if you operate properly with cowl flaps and mixture leaning,
they run right in the middle except during climbs or descends were they
became hotter and colder namely.

The strange was that we were not able to cool them down opening the
cowl flaps
The EGT's were at the minimum indications (like we has not leaned at
all)
but the Flow Meters were like the leaned properly.
According to the POH it should have been 23.6 Gal / hour which means
about 12
for each engine like I was reading.
Just the left engines was overhauled while the right has still 600
hours.
They were behaving exactly the same way..
It can't be the same kind of inconvenience to both engines, oil, cht,
egt indicators and mixture levers....

Could it have something to do with the fuel we put during the second
flight ?


What % of full power is 29" and 2400 RPM? I realize you're flying a
turbocharged aircraft, but 24" and 2400 RPM is usually something like 75%,
so I'd guess 29" and 2400 RPM is well over 75%.

Well not.. TSIO 360EB can run up to 40" as maximum continuos power if
you are able to cool the engine properly (i.e. during a descend from a
level higher than the single engine ceiling)

According to the POH of the Seneca II this setting is 75% of power
which is
also the reccomended setting for the first 25 hours after a major
overhaul like the one undergone by my left engine.



What is the recommended max cruise setting for these engines?
75%

Am I correct in assuming these are Continental 210 hp engines?
They are Continental engines rated for 200hp at sea level
and 215hp at 12,000ft



"Silvio Mecucci" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi all,
Yesterday I was flying on a Seneca II equipped with TSIO 360EB Teledyne
Continental engines.
The first flight (Dusseldorf-Milan) took 2 hours, FL 140, everything
working perfectly adn according to the manual.
The second flight (Milan-Rome) had the following inconvenience on BOTH
engines:
At FL 130 29" MAP 2400rpm the indicated fuel flow was 12 Gal/Hours
but the Mixture control lever were in the "Full Rich" position.
I could not move them to lean mixture since the fuel flow was going
down to less than 12. The speed was correct (about 170 KTAS), and the
engines were both a little bit too hot, but not that much.
I repeat it was behaving like this for BOTH engines. And this
sound strange and new to me..

I still have to fly again with the same plane, and it will be checked
by a specialist before, but, is there anybody who has an idea about
what was happening ?

Silvio

Good questions. The original post was certainly short on details regarding
what the pilot feels is normal versus what was actually happening
I agree with you.
I put some more details in the other reply.
Also.. usually on GA cheap aircrafts, engine instruments are not that
good in
reliability unless hey are new or well mantained.
I bought this airplane yesterday in germany.. were usually mantainance
is done properly.
In fact, both engine istruments indications were in accord.
This let me think that is not something strange to do with a single
engine
or both engines with the same problem at the same time with a life so
different:
0 hours vs 1200 hours...
Please ask me any further detail can help You.
S.

"Scott Skylane" wrote in message
...
The TSIO-360EB is boosted to 40", quite high for a general aviation
engine.

Well, there you go! 29/2400 is probably *less* than 75% power.

And yes, that's pretty high. Wow. Poor little tiny engines, asked to put
up with so much!

Pete

On 7 Aug 2005 08:40:41 -0700, "Silvio Mecucci"
wrote:

Please refer to TCM SID97-3C (latest revision is dated 2-25-2005).

http://www.tcmlink.com/pdf2/SID97-3C.pdf

It describes in detail how the fuel injection system on your engines
is to be set-up.

This should have been accomplished when your "new" engine was
installed, and the unmetered pressures and fuel flows should be
verified periodically (during scheduled inspections).

I am not saying that you have a problem, but ensuring that you have
the proper fuel delivered to a turbo-supercharged aircraft engine is
not an option.

Regards;

TC

Hi all,
Yesterday I was flying on a Seneca II equipped with TSIO 360EB Teledyne
Continental engines.
The first flight (Dusseldorf-Milan) took 2 hours, FL 140, everything
working perfectly adn according to the manual.
The second flight (Milan-Rome) had the following inconvenience on BOTH
engines:
At FL 130 29" MAP 2400rpm the indicated fuel flow was 12 Gal/Hours
but the Mixture control lever were in the "Full Rich" position.
I could not move them to lean mixture since the fuel flow was going
down to less than 12. The speed was correct (about 170 KTAS), and the
engines were both a little bit too hot, but not that much.
I repeat it was behaving like this for BOTH engines. And this
sound strange and new to me..

I still have to fly again with the same plane, and it will be checked
by a specialist before, but, is there anybody who has an idea about
what was happening ?

Silvio

We were running about 210=B0 F for Oil and 420=B0F for CHT.

I'm not entirely familiar with the TIO-360 but those CHTs sound high to
me. Maybe I'm just conditioned to seeing temps around 370-380 in the
Aztec/Lance (non-turbo) but John Deakin's excellent articles on this
subject warn of exceeding 400F. Like another poster suggested maybe the
FI system is out of whack?


They are Continental engines rated for 200hp at sea level and 215hp at 1=
2,000ft

Turbo engines with a higher power rating at altitude? Never heard of
that, but then again I only have a few hours in the PA34-200T.

That's what's written in the POH ..