Hornet HUD

Hi all. I'm just about finished with what I think is going to be a
pretty realisitc freeware Hornet HUD for the MS flight simulator. Being
the newbie wannabe Hornet pilot that I am (heheh), I have a few
questions that may seem silly, but I would like to get some of these
finer details right. I was hoping maybe someone in here might know. I
have the ladder, vector, AoA bracket and other basics working
properly, but....

1) What is on-speed AoA for the Hornet? I've seen 8.1 degrees, but have
seen video (Military channel, probably) that had the AoA bracket
centered on the vector, with the jet on final to the carrier, on
glideslope, and with the waterline only about 2 degrees above the
horizon. Now I'm no mathemetician, but... that's only about 6 degrees
AoA, right. So what gives? ;-) Is this a case of units AoA vs. degrees
AoA or something... (in which case, what's the conversion?) Or is there
something else I'm missing? (I can't imagine that something so
fundamental would be adjustable in cockpit.)

2) Pitch ladder drift with yaw.... I like when the ladder drifts left
and right with the vector, because it gives such clear trend info with
heading, wind, etc., but I know many will whine that the ladder
sometimes drifts off the side of the HUD. Is ladder drift always ON, or
can it be switched off by the pilot?

3) ILS needles. Are they centered on the waterline, or on the velocity
vector? I believe I've seen this both ways too, even with the gear
down, but wouldn't bet too much on that.... Right now I have it
switchable, but prefer them on the waterline mark since it seems too
cluttered when they're on the vector.

4) Radar altitude. Is this a switchable thing, or does it show up only
when below a certain altitude, or... something else?

Any hints with any of this? Anyone... ;-) Thanks for any info.

wrote:

1) What is on-speed AoA for the Hornet?

Wouldn't AoA vary depending on aircraft weight and weather conditions?
Also, are you sure about that documentary? Last night, I was watching
this documentary that started talking about the MiG-25, but showed
footage of the MiG-29. So many cable shows just mindlessly rehash
simplified versions of books that I've barely watched them at all. The
only ones I could stand were the "Wings of the Red Star", and that was
probably because I hadn't read any books about soviet aircraft.

4) Radar altitude. Is this a switchable thing, or does it show up only
when below a certain altitude, or... something else?

Wouldn't it have to be manual? Did low-flying Intruder pilots use
their radar altimeters over hostile territory in VN?

"FatKat" wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:

1) What is on-speed AoA for the Hornet?

Wouldn't AoA vary depending on aircraft weight and weather conditions?
Also, are you sure about that documentary?

They whole point of flying AoA vice airspeed is that its independent of
gross weight. Optimum angle of attack is optimum angle of attack. I'm not
sure what you think weather conditions would have to do with AoA.

Last night, I was watching
this documentary that started talking about the MiG-25, but showed
footage of the MiG-29. So many cable shows just mindlessly rehash
simplified versions of books that I've barely watched them at all. The
only ones I could stand were the "Wings of the Red Star", and that was
probably because I hadn't read any books about soviet aircraft.

4) Radar altitude. Is this a switchable thing, or does it show up only
when below a certain altitude, or... something else?

Most radalts go into standby mode climbing through 5000' AGL. You can set
radalt warning for any altitude you want. USN typically 5000' (platform)
for descent, perhaps and intermediate for FAF whatever, then perhaps 80% of
MDA or 200' DH. Low level, usually 10 - 20% below desired agl altitude.

R / John

FatKat wrote:
wrote:

1) What is on-speed AoA for the Hornet?

Wouldn't AoA vary depending on aircraft weight and weather conditions?

Yes, it would, but I probably wasn't clear with what I was asking. Navy
pilots fly AoA in the pattern, not airspeed. AoA gives a more
consistent picture of the aircraft's state in relation to stall, and
there's one certain AoA that always puts the nose (and thus hook) in
the best position for catching a wire. (This is regardless of weight
and speed.) I'm just trying to figure out what that AoA is. I believe
it is 8.1, but am not sure. The other thing I'm interested in is the
sensitivity of the AoA bracket - is it one degree AoA within the whole
bracket, one degree on either side of the optimum, something else...?
And how do the indexer donuts and chevron correspond, precisely? Is it
a solid yellow donut when AoA is anywhere within the bracket, or do the
chevron/donut combinations begin to appear within (but near the edges
of) the bracket? That all sounds goofy, and these are nit-picky
questions, I know! I would just like to do it right....

Also, are you sure about that documentary? Last night, I was watching
this documentary that started talking about the MiG-25, but showed
footage of the MiG-29.

Yep, I know what you mean, but the part I'm referring to wasn't talk;
it was HUD footage from a Hornet, possibly Superhornet, on final.
(Maybe the superhornet's on speed AoA is different?) Anyway, the on
speed AoA looked to be closer to 6, possibly slightly below. On the
other hand, I have HUD footage from a CF-18, and he clearly lands with
the bracket centered around 8. So who knows... shrug

So many cable shows just mindlessly rehash
simplified versions of books that I've barely watched them at all. The
only ones I could stand were the "Wings of the Red Star", and that was
probably because I hadn't read any books about soviet aircraft.

4) Radar altitude. Is this a switchable thing, or does it show up only
when below a certain altitude, or... something else?

Wouldn't it have to be manual? Did low-flying Intruder pilots use
their radar altimeters over hostile territory in VN?

No idea!

I'll have to confer with my Bug driving friends for some of the specifics of
your question (actual degrees AOA, etc) and bracket response. (My educated
guess is one degree either side).

As to the indexers. On speed, plus or minus 1/2 degree is a donut. When
you're 1/2 to 1 degree fast or slow, both the donut and the appropriate
chevron (green for slow, red for fast) will illuminate. A full degree or
more, and only the slow or fast chevron will illuminate. There are approach
lights on the nose to duplicate this function for the LSO's. Only diff is
that you don't get two lights (extra credit if you know the one aircraft
that deviates from this ... it no longer flies), just a green light for a 1
degree slow and a red light for 1 degree fast.

As to "optimum" AOA, its a function of several factors. A good landing
attitude for hook engagement w/o adverse effects, an AOA that's comfortably
faster than L/D max (so that you don't immediately enter the region of
reverse command power wise), pilot visibility (F-8 drivers, raise your
hand) are foremost.

R / John

wrote in message
oups.com...
FatKat wrote:
wrote:

1) What is on-speed AoA for the Hornet?

Wouldn't AoA vary depending on aircraft weight and weather conditions?

Yes, it would, but I probably wasn't clear with what I was asking. Navy
pilots fly AoA in the pattern, not airspeed. AoA gives a more
consistent picture of the aircraft's state in relation to stall, and
there's one certain AoA that always puts the nose (and thus hook) in
the best position for catching a wire. (This is regardless of weight
and speed.) I'm just trying to figure out what that AoA is. I believe
it is 8.1, but am not sure. The other thing I'm interested in is the
sensitivity of the AoA bracket - is it one degree AoA within the whole
bracket, one degree on either side of the optimum, something else...?
And how do the indexer donuts and chevron correspond, precisely? Is it
a solid yellow donut when AoA is anywhere within the bracket, or do the
chevron/donut combinations begin to appear within (but near the edges
of) the bracket? That all sounds goofy, and these are nit-picky
questions, I know! I would just like to do it right....

Also, are you sure about that documentary? Last night, I was watching
this documentary that started talking about the MiG-25, but showed
footage of the MiG-29.

Yep, I know what you mean, but the part I'm referring to wasn't talk;
it was HUD footage from a Hornet, possibly Superhornet, on final.
(Maybe the superhornet's on speed AoA is different?) Anyway, the on
speed AoA looked to be closer to 6, possibly slightly below. On the
other hand, I have HUD footage from a CF-18, and he clearly lands with
the bracket centered around 8. So who knows... shrug

So many cable shows just mindlessly rehash
simplified versions of books that I've barely watched them at all. The
only ones I could stand were the "Wings of the Red Star", and that was
probably because I hadn't read any books about soviet aircraft.

4) Radar altitude. Is this a switchable thing, or does it show up only
when below a certain altitude, or... something else?

Wouldn't it have to be manual? Did low-flying Intruder pilots use
their radar altimeters over hostile territory in VN?

No idea!

You didn't say whether you wanted the "regular" Hornet, or the Super
Bug...

From the NATOPS for the Super, I get the following numbers:

Slow - 9.3 to 90

Slightly Slow - 8.8 to 9.3

On-Speed - 7.4 to 8.8

Slightly Fast - 6.9 to 7.4

Fast - 0 to 6.9

It says on-speed should be about 136 KCAS at 44,000lbs GW, subtracting
1.5 KCAS for each 1,000lb under GW.

The "manual" for Jane's F/A-18 has the exact same numbers for the
regular Hornet - but no airspeed listed.

Yes, I know it was a game, but their test-pilot/tech expert (Jim
Campisi) was an actual Hornet driver and the lead developer was a
former Hornet radar guy (Matt Wagner) who was stickler for getting it
as right as they could...

Snerdley


On 23 Sep 2005 13:03:56 -0700, wrote:

FatKat wrote:
wrote:

1) What is on-speed AoA for the Hornet?

Wouldn't AoA vary depending on aircraft weight and weather conditions?

Yes, it would, but I probably wasn't clear with what I was asking. Navy
pilots fly AoA in the pattern, not airspeed. AoA gives a more
consistent picture of the aircraft's state in relation to stall, and
there's one certain AoA that always puts the nose (and thus hook) in
the best position for catching a wire. (This is regardless of weight
and speed.) I'm just trying to figure out what that AoA is. I believe
it is 8.1, but am not sure. The other thing I'm interested in is the
sensitivity of the AoA bracket - is it one degree AoA within the whole
bracket, one degree on either side of the optimum, something else...?
And how do the indexer donuts and chevron correspond, precisely? Is it
a solid yellow donut when AoA is anywhere within the bracket, or do the
chevron/donut combinations begin to appear within (but near the edges
of) the bracket? That all sounds goofy, and these are nit-picky
questions, I know! I would just like to do it right....

Also, are you sure about that documentary? Last night, I was watching
this documentary that started talking about the MiG-25, but showed
footage of the MiG-29.

Yep, I know what you mean, but the part I'm referring to wasn't talk;
it was HUD footage from a Hornet, possibly Superhornet, on final.
(Maybe the superhornet's on speed AoA is different?) Anyway, the on
speed AoA looked to be closer to 6, possibly slightly below. On the
other hand, I have HUD footage from a CF-18, and he clearly lands with
the bracket centered around 8. So who knows... shrug

So many cable shows just mindlessly rehash
simplified versions of books that I've barely watched them at all. The
only ones I could stand were the "Wings of the Red Star", and that was
probably because I hadn't read any books about soviet aircraft.

4) Radar altitude. Is this a switchable thing, or does it show up only
when below a certain altitude, or... something else?

Wouldn't it have to be manual? Did low-flying Intruder pilots use
their radar altimeters over hostile territory in VN?

No idea!

Thanks for the info John and Snerdley. That's exactly the kind of stuff I
was looking for.


wrote in message
...
You didn't say whether you wanted the "regular" Hornet, or the Super
Bug...

From the NATOPS for the Super, I get the following numbers:

Slow - 9.3 to 90

Slightly Slow - 8.8 to 9.3

On-Speed - 7.4 to 8.8

Slightly Fast - 6.9 to 7.4

Fast - 0 to 6.9

It says on-speed should be about 136 KCAS at 44,000lbs GW, subtracting
1.5 KCAS for each 1,000lb under GW.

The "manual" for Jane's F/A-18 has the exact same numbers for the
regular Hornet - but no airspeed listed.

Yes, I know it was a game, but their test-pilot/tech expert (Jim
Campisi) was an actual Hornet driver and the lead developer was a
former Hornet radar guy (Matt Wagner) who was stickler for getting it
as right as they could...

Snerdley

sp wrote:
Thanks for the info John and Snerdley. That's exactly the kind of stuff I
was looking for.


wrote in message
...
You didn't say whether you wanted the "regular" Hornet, or the Super
Bug...

From the NATOPS for the Super, I get the following numbers:

Slow - 9.3 to 90

Slightly Slow - 8.8 to 9.3

On-Speed - 7.4 to 8.8

Slightly Fast - 6.9 to 7.4

Fast - 0 to 6.9

It says on-speed should be about 136 KCAS at 44,000lbs GW, subtracting
1.5 KCAS for each 1,000lb under GW.

The "manual" for Jane's F/A-18 has the exact same numbers for the
regular Hornet - but no airspeed listed.

Yes, I know it was a game, but their test-pilot/tech expert (Jim
Campisi) was an actual Hornet driver and the lead developer was a
former Hornet radar guy (Matt Wagner) who was stickler for getting it
as right as they could...

Snerdley


On speed is around 8 alpha. You always fly with the e bracket centred
(unless a single engine approach)from the center of the bracket to each
top/bottom edge is about 4 kt, so about 8 total. the pitch ladder can
move with the wind or it can be "caged" to remain centred in nav master
mode. our sop is to leave it caged and use the ghost vv to measure
wind. radalt can be selected by a switch under the hud, far right. Ils
needles are centred on the vv if you are on the loc/gp and centred on
the wl if you are doing a backup approach (eg ins to stby/no vv)
hope this helps, this info is all for the canadian hornet
monkey

sp wrote:
Thanks for the info John and Snerdley. That's exactly the kind of stuff I
was looking for.


wrote in message
...
You didn't say whether you wanted the "regular" Hornet, or the Super
Bug...

From the NATOPS for the Super, I get the following numbers:

Slow - 9.3 to 90

Slightly Slow - 8.8 to 9.3

On-Speed - 7.4 to 8.8

Slightly Fast - 6.9 to 7.4

Fast - 0 to 6.9

It says on-speed should be about 136 KCAS at 44,000lbs GW, subtracting
1.5 KCAS for each 1,000lb under GW.

The "manual" for Jane's F/A-18 has the exact same numbers for the
regular Hornet - but no airspeed listed.

Yes, I know it was a game, but their test-pilot/tech expert (Jim
Campisi) was an actual Hornet driver and the lead developer was a
former Hornet radar guy (Matt Wagner) who was stickler for getting it
as right as they could...

Snerdley


On speed is around 8 alpha. You always fly with the e bracket centred
(unless a single engine approach)from the center of the bracket to each
top/bottom edge is about 4 kt, so about 8 total. the pitch ladder can
move with the wind or it can be "caged" to remain centred in nav master
mode. our sop is to leave it caged and use the ghost vv to measure
wind. radalt can be selected by a switch under the hud, far right. Ils
needles are centred on the vv if you are on the loc/gp and centred on
the wl if you are doing a backup approach (eg ins to stby/no vv)
hope this helps, this info is all for the canadian hornet
monkey

sp wrote:
Thanks for the info John and Snerdley. That's exactly the kind of stuff I
was looking for.


wrote in message
...
You didn't say whether you wanted the "regular" Hornet, or the Super
Bug...

From the NATOPS for the Super, I get the following numbers:

Slow - 9.3 to 90

Slightly Slow - 8.8 to 9.3

On-Speed - 7.4 to 8.8

Slightly Fast - 6.9 to 7.4

Fast - 0 to 6.9

It says on-speed should be about 136 KCAS at 44,000lbs GW, subtracting
1.5 KCAS for each 1,000lb under GW.

The "manual" for Jane's F/A-18 has the exact same numbers for the
regular Hornet - but no airspeed listed.

Yes, I know it was a game, but their test-pilot/tech expert (Jim
Campisi) was an actual Hornet driver and the lead developer was a
former Hornet radar guy (Matt Wagner) who was stickler for getting it
as right as they could...

Snerdley


On speed is around 8 alpha. You always fly with the e bracket centred
(unless a single engine approach)from the center of the bracket to each
top/bottom edge is about 4 kt, so about 8 total. the pitch ladder can
move with the wind or it can be "caged" to remain centred in nav master
mode. our sop is to leave it caged and use the ghost vv to measure
wind. radalt can be selected by a switch under the hud, far right. Ils
needles are centred on the vv if you are on the loc/gp and centred on
the wl if you are doing a backup approach (eg ins to stby/no vv)
hope this helps, this info is all for the canadian hornet
monkey