Complaints about Churchgoer Jim Irwin and Aircraft Spruce --- Just the Tip of the Iceberg--- They Go On and On and On

I got tired of being on hold with Aircraft Spruce so I calle*d Wicks.
Wonder of wonders, a live person picked up the phone on the *second
ring! I will never deal with AS again unless it is absolute*ly
necessary.
Scott


I sent them a complaint and eventually got a response. Inst*ead of just
admitting to anything they tried to turn it arround and tell* me it was
my fault that they never called back or shipped my faxed ord*er, etc.
Not a great way to warm up to the customer.



Now, for the fun, I called the customer service line at 3:3*0 PM
Pacific
Time, and was told that if it was between 7 AM and 4 PM, cu*stomer
service
would help me shortly, or so the recording repeatedly goes.*.....
At 4 PM I decided they weren't going to help me shortly....*It appears
that
Aircraft Spruce doesn't answer the phones between 3:30 and *4:00 pm on
Friday....Especially when it's my nickel from Massachusetts* to
California...half hour holding pattern ..... then give up a*nd
divert


I can assure this [bad] experience, but by not quoting a wrong pri*ce. There
are
several automatic circuit breakers in their catalouge. I ord*ered the Klixon
type ones with long button. I received of a order of 10 7 as* long button
type and 3 of them as short button typ, which were useless, *since I have to
operate most time with gloves. So I send the useless ones ba*ck and
requested
to exchgange them. I shortly after received a new shippment *containing one
long button and again two short button circuit breakers. - I* have no idea
why !? - because they have a different stock number. I compl*aint at them
with no response. Time had gone by and I need the parts for* test flying so
had to built them in.
Since I live in Europe I have alsway exchange rate and VAT o*n top. This
wouln't cause any problem, but I'm a homebuilder and not a c*ompany. This
means all VAT plus shipping cost lost for exchanging them.
Christian
P.S.: It might be wrong to blame them, but I think everybody* should know
what's going on in the scene.



I asked for a price on some dzus fasteners last September fr*om Aircraft
Spruce and Specialty in CA. In response I received a written* quote by fax
from them of 0.20 each. I needed 40 of these so ordered them*, and paid by
giving them my Mastercard number. When they arrived I took t*hem out of the
packet and used them. Later when checking the invoice, I fou*nd that they
had charged me $2.10 each instead of their quoted price of 0*.20 each. This
amounted to an overcharge of US$76.00.
I'm from Australia so this amounts to approx $125.00 in Aust*ralian dollars
due to the exchange rate at the time the order was placed. A*fter repeated
requests to them to refund the balance, I have only now rece*ived a response
which basically stated I should have known that the quote mu*st have been an
error because it was too cheap,
[To be fair to Spruce, later, after several exchanges in usenet, Spruce
refunded the overcharge.]


If you search DejaNews and compare the number of folks
posting that have had a "less than satisfactory" experience *with
Aircraft Spruce, I think you'll find they out-number the "ha*ppy
customer" posts. Are all these people that posted negativel*y just
folks that like to complain? If I were a betting man, I'd b*et not....
FWIW, I've ordered stuff from A/S before and was happy with
the service/prices. This time I wasn't so I posted my
dis-satisfaction. Sorry to all for sharing my point of view*....





In a thread discussing a multitude of grievances with Aircraft Spruce:

If you **** a customer off, he will tell, on average, 11 of *his friends,
neighbors, and absolute strangers.
If you provide him exemplary service and cater to his every *need, he will
tell 2.
Here endeth the marketing lesson for the day.
:-)




My experence with AS&S FWIW is about 75% of the time the ord*er is
correct and on time. The other 25%......#@%&&*&*&^!!!?!
Ric Lee



If anyone has a telephone number or a URL address for Wicks,* please reply
with
it. I have had enough of AS&S.
ocbb


Subject: Been ripped by AS&S deceptive freight pricing???

On a recent shipment AS&S charged $55 for a shipment that sh*ould have cost
approx $31-35 according to UPS. AS&S can't explain the charg*es nor admit
they are wrong. I suppose they feel UPS is mistaken.
Anyone else experience this deception?
RD, Coeur d'Alene, Idaho

I am considering action against such deception and I si*ncerely wanted
to know how extensive is this practice by AS&S. Unfortunatel*y, I have not
saved the shipping details from the thousands of dollars I h*ave spent with
AS&S and aside from the recent incident, have no data of my *own to
determine
the past history of the dishonesty. I am sorry it does not m*eet with your
approval....... No, not really.


Juan E Jimenez"wrote in messag*e

As to the $55 for a $31-$35 shipment, I doubt very much th*ey would not be
able to explain the charges. That is not the way Jim Irwin* runs his
business. There must be something else not disclosed here.

Not how Jim Irwin runs his business, now there's a laugh. Ji*m Irwin was by
no stretch of the imagination the pinnicle of customer suppo*rt. It is
fortunately that AS&S has better people in those roles. It* was Jim who
countered legitimate complaints about AS&S here in the past *by disclosing
people's personal information on the group in an attempt to *publicly
humiliate
them into not telling the truth about his company.
ASS certainly has done dunderheaded customer service things *in the past
like quibble over credits that were under $5. In the past *they would simply
backorder things forever because the "computers" said it was* in the
wearhouse
but the order pullers couldn't find it and nobody would do a*nything to
resolve
the issue without a bunch of complaints. They also would r*efuse to take
order inquiries or other issues over the 800 numbers.

For Pete's sake. Are you related to Ralph Nader?

Seriously, vote with your feet. These folks seem to make lots of mistakes,
do business elsewhere. Likely, they still are in business because there is
not better solution. If you really want to help everyone out, go start your
own company and do it better.

Otherwise, we have all had enough.

Had Nader not been such an overzealuos idiot, corvair production would never
have ceased, and we would likely be 10 years behind in the process of our
country dying due to overwhelming weight of consumer regulation and tort
costs.

In the future, perhaps you could simply state your gripe, let us all know,
and leave it be. You will convince more people with the an unemotional
statement of the facts.

So you can find a few people that complained.
Now lets see. AS&S has a total of 100 customers. In that case the
number of complaints you got is significant. But if AS&S has 100,000
customers then statistically your number is insignificant. A certain
percentage of population are chronic bellyachers (like you). You can
expect that in any business. But it seems that the responders in all
the threads you started here are more positive toward AS&S then
negative - disproving your point.

jls wrote:
I got tired of being on hold with Aircraft Spruce so I calle=ADd
Wicks.
Wonder of wonders, a live person picked up the phone on the =ADsecond
ring! I will never deal with AS again unless it is absolute=ADly
necessary.
Scott
=20
... blah, blah, blah...

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 17:19:45 GMT, "Dude" wrote:

For Pete's sake. Are you related to Ralph Nader?

Seriously, vote with your feet. These folks seem to make lots of mistakes,
do business elsewhere. Likely, they still are in business because there is
not better solution. If you really want to help everyone out, go start your
own company and do it better.

Otherwise, we have all had enough.

Had Nader not been such an overzealuos idiot, corvair production would never
have ceased, and we would likely be 10 years behind in the process of our
country dying due to overwhelming weight of consumer regulation and tort
costs.

In the future, perhaps you could simply state your gripe, let us all know,
and leave it be. You will convince more people with the an unemotional
statement of the facts.


There are a lot of guys in australia using aircraft spruce and I
havent heard any complaints from any of the locals.
....oh one guy was winging because an out of stock item was on back
order but it arrived soon enough.
....yeah one other guy winged like hell because they couldnt supply
4130 flat sheet. he rang around the us and australia and found that no
one else could either. he eventually sourced his 4130 from aircraft
spruce. it all arrived because I have drooled over the sheer size of
the order he put in. they supplied a *lot* of 4130 to him.

when I had the chance to holiday in the US we made a 70 mile detour to
the corona store. great little shop with friendly people. cool
aeroplane that hangs off the roof too. I'm still flying on the
tailwheel I bought as are 3 other aircraft with tailwheels I gave
away.
despite the guy's BS I'll still go back and buy my next tailwheel from
them. their catalogue alone is worth it.
Stealth Pilot
Australia.

"Stealth Pilot" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 17:19:45 GMT, "Dude" wrote:

For Pete's sake. Are you related to Ralph Nader?

Seriously, vote with your feet. These folks seem to make lots of
mistakes,
do business elsewhere. Likely, they still are in business because there
is
not better solution. If you really want to help everyone out, go start
your
own company and do it better.

Otherwise, we have all had enough.

Had Nader not been such an overzealuos idiot, corvair production would
never
have ceased, and we would likely be 10 years behind in the process of our
country dying due to overwhelming weight of consumer regulation and tort
costs.

In the future, perhaps you could simply state your gripe, let us all know,
and leave it be. You will convince more people with the an unemotional
statement of the facts.


There are a lot of guys in australia using aircraft spruce and I
havent heard any complaints from any of the locals.
...oh one guy was winging because an out of stock item was on back
order but it arrived soon enough.
...yeah one other guy winged like hell because they couldnt supply
4130 flat sheet. he rang around the us and australia and found that no
one else could either. he eventually sourced his 4130 from aircraft
spruce. it all arrived because I have drooled over the sheer size of
the order he put in. they supplied a *lot* of 4130 to him.

when I had the chance to holiday in the US we made a 70 mile detour to
the corona store. great little shop with friendly people. cool
aeroplane that hangs off the roof too. I'm still flying on the
tailwheel I bought as are 3 other aircraft with tailwheels I gave
away.
despite the guy's BS I'll still go back and buy my next tailwheel from
them. their catalogue alone is worth it.
Stealth Pilot
Australia.

Stealth,

I am glad you had a better experience, but that's not the point.

The point is -

IT DOES NOT MATTER WHO IS RIGHT OR WRONG.

No one is going to convince the other side here any sooner than we get done
with Roe v. Wade. It just ain't gonna happen. In the meantime, jls is
seriously damaging the power of the internet to improve the world in
general. All because he HAS to be right. No one will argue that any
company is perfect. If they do, they are kidding themselves. Letting us all
know about a bad experience does have value, but a crusade does not.

I suppose I am beating my head up against the wall here, so I am done with
it.

"Dude" wrote in message news:MSuMd.5949
I am glad you had a better experience, but that's not the point.

The point is -

IT DOES NOT MATTER WHO IS RIGHT OR WRONG.

I don't claim to be right or wrong. I got a bad CHT gauge which I
installed without testing it, and I should have sent Jim Irwin an e-mail
about it long ago. I got in a hurry and got into it with one of his
short-tempered girls. And I happen to be short-tempered too.

No one is going to convince the other side here any sooner than we get
done
with Roe v. Wade.

Roe v. Wade, the decision on reproductive rights by a Nixon-packed court and
Chief Justice Warren Burger, is here to stay. See the 9th Amendment and
caselaw for details. And I'm wondering what Roe has to do with Aircraft
Spruce.


It just ain't gonna happen. In the meantime, jls is
seriously damaging the power of the internet to improve the world in
general.

I ain't damaged nothing. If there's a god (which I doubt) he's in his
heaven and all's right with the world and the internet and usenet are
valuable tools.

Your opinion you're entitled to, even if you are toked out on cannabis.


All because he HAS to be right. No one will argue that any
company is perfect. If they do, they are kidding themselves. Letting us
all
know about a bad experience does have value, but a crusade does not.

I didn't know how bad the Google record on Irwin the sanctimonious hypocrite
was. Now I do, and now everyone else with a brain does too.

I suppose I am beating my head up against the wall here, so I am done with
it.

No, you ain't beating your head against a wall. And most times I'm just
happy to be alive.

OK?

getting the last word in just proved dude's point :-)
Stealth Pilot



On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 17:54:26 -0500, " jls"
wrote:


"Dude" wrote in message news:MSuMd.5949
I am glad you had a better experience, but that's not the point.

The point is -

IT DOES NOT MATTER WHO IS RIGHT OR WRONG.

I don't claim to be right or wrong. I got a bad CHT gauge which I
installed without testing it, and I should have sent Jim Irwin an e-mail
about it long ago. I got in a hurry and got into it with one of his
short-tempered girls. And I happen to be short-tempered too.

No one is going to convince the other side here any sooner than we get
done
with Roe v. Wade.

Roe v. Wade, the decision on reproductive rights by a Nixon-packed court and
Chief Justice Warren Burger, is here to stay. See the 9th Amendment and
caselaw for details. And I'm wondering what Roe has to do with Aircraft
Spruce.


It just ain't gonna happen. In the meantime, jls is
seriously damaging the power of the internet to improve the world in
general.

I ain't damaged nothing. If there's a god (which I doubt) he's in his
heaven and all's right with the world and the internet and usenet are
valuable tools.

Your opinion you're entitled to, even if you are toked out on cannabis.


All because he HAS to be right. No one will argue that any
company is perfect. If they do, they are kidding themselves. Letting us
all
know about a bad experience does have value, but a crusade does not.

I didn't know how bad the Google record on Irwin the sanctimonious hypocrite
was. Now I do, and now everyone else with a brain does too.

I suppose I am beating my head up against the wall here, so I am done with
it.

No, you ain't beating your head against a wall. And most times I'm just
happy to be alive.

OK?