Homebuilt kits

Thinking of building. Have been looking around and not found the kind
of selection I though was available. Found Zenith, Sonex and Vans. Of
the three, I'm looking a little harder at the two seaters from Vans
(RV-7 and -9) and Zenith (Zodiac XL). Obviously different performance
but costs don't seem that much different.

Would anyone be willing to share their experiences with building kits
from these companies? Any comments on flight characteristics of these
planes? Reliability? Any information to share? Reputation? Etc?

I stopped flying a little over 30 years ago but have ~ 1200 hours and a
CASMELI.

I'm in the midwest U.S.

TIA,

CV

"Cal Vanize" wrote in message
...

Thinking of building. Have been looking around and not found the kind of
selection I though was available. Found Zenith, Sonex and Vans. Of the
three, I'm looking a little harder at the two seaters from Vans (RV-7
and -9) and Zenith (Zodiac XL). Obviously different performance but costs
don't seem that much different.

Would anyone be willing to share their experiences with building kits from
these companies? Any comments on flight characteristics of these planes?
Reliability? Any information to share? Reputation? Etc?

I stopped flying a little over 30 years ago but have ~ 1200 hours and a
CASMELI.

I'm in the midwest U.S.

TIA,

CV

The RV kits are great and the aircraft are tremendous fun to fly. Their
high performance is great after years of flying 100 knot airplanes. Van's
designs may be the only homebuilts where a builder can consistantly get
his/her money out of the aircraft if it ever needs to be sold. As far as
reliability goes, any of the Van's kits or any of the "Brand X" designs will
have similar levels of reliability as long as the systems are comparable
between aircraft. In fact, if you build a homebuilt with systems similar to
production aircraft, the homebuilt will have similar reliability to the
production aircraft.

If you do a google search for the Van's designs, you'll find a huge number
of builder websites and you'll discover that there is a huge support network
for these aircraft, which means you probably won't have to build in a
vacuum.

Good luck on your decision.

KB

Kyle Boatright wrote:
"Cal Vanize" wrote in message
...

Thinking of building. Have been looking around and not found the kind of
selection I though was available. Found Zenith, Sonex and Vans. Of the
three, I'm looking a little harder at the two seaters from Vans (RV-7
and -9) and Zenith (Zodiac XL). Obviously different performance but costs
don't seem that much different.

Would anyone be willing to share their experiences with building kits from
these companies? Any comments on flight characteristics of these planes?
Reliability? Any information to share? Reputation? Etc?

I stopped flying a little over 30 years ago but have ~ 1200 hours and a
CASMELI.

I'm in the midwest U.S.

TIA,

CV


The RV kits are great and the aircraft are tremendous fun to fly. Their
high performance is great after years of flying 100 knot airplanes. Van's
designs may be the only homebuilts where a builder can consistantly get
his/her money out of the aircraft if it ever needs to be sold. As far as
reliability goes, any of the Van's kits or any of the "Brand X" designs will
have similar levels of reliability as long as the systems are comparable
between aircraft. In fact, if you build a homebuilt with systems similar to
production aircraft, the homebuilt will have similar reliability to the
production aircraft.

If you do a google search for the Van's designs, you'll find a huge number
of builder websites and you'll discover that there is a huge support network
for these aircraft, which means you probably won't have to build in a
vacuum.

Good luck on your decision.

KB


Take a long hard look at what's included in each kit (meaning, how much
more must you spend to make it fly). Try to get a ride in an example of
each.You will probably sell yourself on one or the other after sampling
the handling & performance.

Charlie
Disclaimer: I'm flying an RV-4 & building an RV-7

Cal Vanize wrote:


Thinking of building. Have been looking around and not found the kind
of selection I though was available. Found Zenith, Sonex and Vans. Of
the three, I'm lookiguaranteedle harder at the two seaters from Vans
(RV-7 and -9) and Zenith (Zodiac XL). Obviously different performance
but costs don't seem that much different.

Would anyone be willing to share their experiences with building kits
from these companies? Any comments on flight characteristics of these
planes? Reliability? Any information to share? Reputation? Etc?

I stopped flying a little over 30 years ago but have ~ 1200 hours and a
CASMELI.

I'm in the midwest U.S.

TIA,

CV

One advantage to the XL is it can be built to qualify for operation by a
Sport pilot. If you haven't flown in 30 years I take it your at least in
your 50's which means a medical isn't always guaranteed. As long as your
medical isn't denied (if there's any doubt about passing go for a
"preliminary non-avialtion physical with your AME first). It's something to
think about at least.
John
Currently flying on a special issuance and will not renew it (too much
hassle and expense)

Cal Vanize wrote in
:


Thinking of building. Have been looking around and not found the kind
of selection I though was available. Found Zenith, Sonex and Vans.
Of the three, I'm looking a little harder at the two seaters from Vans
(RV-7 and -9) and Zenith (Zodiac XL). Obviously different performance
but costs don't seem that much different.

Would anyone be willing to share their experiences with building kits
from these companies? Any comments on flight characteristics of these
planes? Reliability? Any information to share? Reputation? Etc?

I stopped flying a little over 30 years ago but have ~ 1200 hours and
a CASMELI.

I'm in the midwest U.S.

TIA,

CV


An RV is a terrifice plane, any one of them... They will cost more
(different recomended engine) and take at least twice as long to build
(driven rivets) so be aware. The RV is MUCH faster, but doesnt qualify
for Sport Pilot if by the time you've actually finished building you
don't have your medical anymore.

I like the Zodiac, but I've yet to meet a Zodiac owner who claims his
plane actually goes as fast as the Zenith brouchure claims .. (& I keep
an eye on the major email group) Of the three the Zodiac will likely
take the least time to build. The other upside to building a Zodiac is
it MAY be worth more at resale since they are actually producing factory
built sLSA Zodiacs for $75K+.. So someone considering one of those may
have an interest in yours for say $45K, and you've invested perhaps
$35-40K

Sonex actually will go as fast as the factory says it will, is the
least expensive when you are all said and done, but if you and your
wife/flying partner are on the large side, it may be a little tight.

Disclaimer... I'm building a Sonex from scratch... Will take as long as
building an RV from a kit.. current total budget approx $16K.


--
-- ET :-)

"A common mistake people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools."---- Douglas Adams

Well, there are over 4000 of the various RV types built and flying. I'd
say it's safe to assume that they have a first-rate kit (I have an RV-4
kit myself).

Scott



Cal Vanize wrote:


Thinking of building. Have been looking around and not found the kind
of selection I though was available. Found Zenith, Sonex and Vans. Of
the three, I'm looking a little harder at the two seaters from Vans
(RV-7 and -9) and Zenith (Zodiac XL). Obviously different performance
but costs don't seem that much different.

Would anyone be willing to share their experiences with building kits
from these companies? Any comments on flight characteristics of these
planes? Reliability? Any information to share? Reputation? Etc?

I stopped flying a little over 30 years ago but have ~ 1200 hours and a
CASMELI.

I'm in the midwest U.S.

TIA,

CV

ET wrote:
Cal Vanize wrote in
:


Thinking of building. Have been looking around and not found the kind
of selection I though was available. Found Zenith, Sonex and Vans.
Of the three, I'm looking a little harder at the two seaters from Vans
(RV-7 and -9) and Zenith (Zodiac XL). Obviously different performance
but costs don't seem that much different.

Would anyone be willing to share their experiences with building kits
from these companies? Any comments on flight characteristics of these
planes? Reliability? Any information to share? Reputation? Etc?

I stopped flying a little over 30 years ago but have ~ 1200 hours and
a CASMELI.

I'm in the midwest U.S.

TIA,

CV



An RV is a terrifice plane, any one of them... They will cost more
(different recomended engine) and take at least twice as long to build
(driven rivets) so be aware. The RV is MUCH faster, but doesnt qualify
for Sport Pilot if by the time you've actually finished building you
don't have your medical anymore.

I like the Zodiac, but I've yet to meet a Zodiac owner who claims his
plane actually goes as fast as the Zenith brouchure claims .. (& I keep
an eye on the major email group) Of the three the Zodiac will likely
take the least time to build. The other upside to building a Zodiac is
it MAY be worth more at resale since they are actually producing factory
built sLSA Zodiacs for $75K+.. So someone considering one of those may
have an interest in yours for say $45K, and you've invested perhaps
$35-40K


Worth more than what, an RV? Probably not, also I also question your
assertion about the building time. I built my old slow built RV-6
in 20 months from start till first flight. I also had a full time job
while building, so different strokes for different folks. I just hate to
see faulty information spread around like this. I looked seriously at
building a Zodiac after I built the RV and found that they would cost
right at the same as a RV and did not have the "Total Performance" that
an RV does. BTW I have been flying my RV-6 for 17 year now and never get
tired of it.

Sonex actually will go as fast as the factory says it will,

Are you saying a RV won't?

is the
least expensive when you are all said and done, but if you and your
wife/flying partner are on the large side, it may be a little tight.

Having been flying all of my life first with my father
and then getting my pilots licensee while in high school in the 60's I
can tell you that comfort makes all of the difference in the world
on how much you will enjoy flying.

Disclaimer... I'm building a Sonex from scratch... Will take as long as
building an RV from a kit.. current total budget approx $16K.

Will you be flying in 20 months from start to finish?
I had $21,000 in my RV-6 at first flight, I know that was in
1988 dollars but you can still build one very reasonably by careful
shopping.

Jerry

Would anyone be willing to share their experiences with building kits
from these companies? Any comments on flight characteristics of these
planes? Reliability? Any information to share? Reputation? Etc?

My dad and I built an RV-6 (slowbuild kit) in 5 1/2 years, finishing in
Nov. 2002. Construction can be a bit of a pain, especially if you have
never worked with metal and/or don't have the right tools. It's not
really hard, just tedious and time-consuming. Also, earlier generations
of plans were sometimes hard to read, but with the newer kits
(RV-7/8/10) they've improved significantly. Support (both from the
community and from Van's) is excellent; 4000 kits means they've probably
seen almost everything by now.

Reliability is mainly determined by the systems you put in. Case in
point: other than tracing a couple minor leaks, misfitting panels, or
balky MP gauges (all after dis/re-assembly for painting), we've never
really had problems. Another guy put in glass panels (front and back)
in his -8, a FADEC, butt-warmers, etc. I don't think he has 100 hours
on it yet, and it's been flying for almost two years now. He spends the
time he could be flying fiddling with the avionics package and shipping
his engine off for troubleshooting.

Flying one is an absolute blast. Fast, maneuverable, and (for a
taildragger) fairly docile when landing. Very tempting to live out your
fighter pilot fantasies...

On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 18:59:13 -0600, Cal Vanize
wrote:


Thinking of building. Have been looking around and not found the kind
of selection I though was available.

Once a year the magazine Kitplanes lists all kitplane manufacturers
and their planes. It consumes nearly the entire issue as there are
hundreds of planes. Each listing indicates price and basic peformance
parameters. This would be a great place to start.

Next, realize that there is considerable risk in buying/building a
kitplane. Many kitplane manufacturers go out of business. Many also
produce kits of questionable quality either through incomplete
instructions or parts. I believe this risk can be lowered by going
with a kitplane manufacturer that has been in business for a long
time, and who has shipped a lot of kits. Spend time at airports, and
you will see the kitplanes that actually fly. Those are the best bet.

Also, check with and join your local EAA chapter, as they would be a
great resource while you are building. If everyone in the chapter has
built Lancairs, you may want to consider the same. If everyone in the
chapter has built RVs, again consider the same. The local knowledge
base is important.

Have fun,
Nathan

Jerry Springer wrote in
:

ET wrote:
Cal Vanize wrote in
:


Thinking of building. Have been looking around and not found the kind
of selection I though was available. Found Zenith, Sonex and Vans.
Of the three, I'm looking a little harder at the two seaters from Vans
(RV-7 and -9) and Zenith (Zodiac XL). Obviously different performance
but costs don't seem that much different.

Would anyone be willing to share their experiences with building kits
from these companies? Any comments on flight characteristics of these
planes? Reliability? Any information to share? Reputation? Etc?

I stopped flying a little over 30 years ago but have ~ 1200 hours and
a CASMELI.

I'm in the midwest U.S.

TIA,

CV



An RV is a terrifice plane, any one of them... They will cost more
(different recomended engine) and take at least twice as long to build
(driven rivets) so be aware. The RV is MUCH faster, but doesnt qualify
for Sport Pilot if by the time you've actually finished building you
don't have your medical anymore.

I like the Zodiac, but I've yet to meet a Zodiac owner who claims his
plane actually goes as fast as the Zenith brouchure claims .. (& I keep
an eye on the major email group) Of the three the Zodiac will likely
take the least time to build. The other upside to building a Zodiac is
it MAY be worth more at resale since they are actually producing factory
built sLSA Zodiacs for $75K+.. So someone considering one of those may
have an interest in yours for say $45K, and you've invested perhaps
$35-40K


Worth more than what, an RV? Probably not, also I also question your
assertion about the building time. I built my old slow built RV-6
in 20 months from start till first flight. I also had a full time job
while building, so different strokes for different folks. I just hate to
see faulty information spread around like this. I looked seriously at
building a Zodiac after I built the RV and found that they would cost
right at the same as a RV and did not have the "Total Performance" that
an RV does. BTW I have been flying my RV-6 for 17 year now and never get
tired of it.

No, a Zodiac will not be worth more than an RV... it MAY get more popular
on the used market just because of the factory built modals bringing the
price up.


Sonex actually will go as fast as the factory says it will,

Are you saying a RV won't?

Nope... as I said in the begining, the RV is a terrific plane.... but
again, the RV kit WILL take twice as long to build as a Sonex or Zodiac.
And cost twice as much, depending agian on insterments and engine choice...
It;s really a whole different class of airplane. Now, when Vans gets the
RV 12 done, it will be a whole new ballgame.



is the
least expensive when you are all said and done, but if you and your
wife/flying partner are on the large side, it may be a little tight.

Having been flying all of my life first with my father
and then getting my pilots licensee while in high school in the 60's I
can tell you that comfort makes all of the difference in the world
on how much you will enjoy flying.

Disclaimer... I'm building a Sonex from scratch... Will take as long as
building an RV from a kit.. current total budget approx $16K.

Will you be flying in 20 months from start to finish?
I had $21,000 in my RV-6 at first flight, I know that was in
1988 dollars but you can still build one very reasonably by careful
shopping.

Thats terrific.. most of your fellow RV builders spend that much on the
engine alone. It is also my personal choice to not build anything that i
cannot keep flying if the day comes that I know I cannot pass my next
medical (note to those who are not aware, do NOT go into your next medical
without 100% assurance that you can pass.., or you are locked out of
sportpilot as well.)

Again, I;m not dissing the RV series... In fact, who knows, the RV 12 may
be next after the Sonex....


Jerry





--
-- ET :-)

"A common mistake people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools."---- Douglas Adams