Error Puts 3 Planes on Same Path at LAX

Are controllers given medical substance abuse tests after an incident
like this?

With an attitude like this:

"We're human beings and we do make mistakes," said Bob Marks, vice
president for the regional office of the National Air Traffic
Controllers Assn.

Is it time Air Traffic Controllers be made to suffer some physical
consequence (like those of the people aboard the aircraft) if their
errors result in an accident?

Pilots have their lives on the line; why shouldn't controllers tasked
with similar responsibility have the same Sward Of Damocles hanging
over their heads?

Would you be comfortable flying with a _pilot_ who was that nonchalant
about errors?

What sort of consequences are ATC personnel subject to as a result of
an operational error? Retraining? Suspension? Loss of certificate?
Loss of pay? Dismissal? Incarceration? Restitution?


-----------------------------------
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...nes-california
Error Puts 3 Planes on Same Path at LAX

An arriving jet passes within 275 feet of one flight as another
aircraft crosses the runway.
By Amanda Covarrubias, Times Staff Writer

Two planes flew dangerously close to each other at Los Angeles
International Airport on Friday after an air traffic controller
directed three aircraft to use the same runway at the same time,
officials said Wednesday.

Federal aviation officials will investigate the incident, and then the
FAA will classify it as to severity. Officials attributed the incident
to human error on the part of the controller.

"We're human beings and we do make mistakes," said Bob Marks, vice
president for the regional office of the National Air Traffic
Controllers Assn., who added that the incident involved a veteran
controller who is set to retire this year.

....

Friday's incident began a few minutes before 11:30 p.m. when a
Southwest Airlines jet that was about to land on the airport's
northernmost runway was diverted by an air traffic controller to a
nearby runway.

Moments later, the controller told a regional SkyWest plane that it
could cross the same runway as it taxied to the terminal. He also told
an arriving Air Canada jet that it could cross the far end of the
runway in the Southwest flight's path.

The SkyWest aircraft was making its way toward the runway and stopped
short when its pilot saw the Southwest jet approaching. The Southwest
aircraft flew within about 275 feet of the SkyWest plane, according to
the initial investigative report, FAA spokeswoman Laura Brown said.

As the Southwest jet touched down, the Air Canada plane crossed its
path at the far end of the runway on its way to the terminal. Seeing
the Air Canada plane, the Southwest pilot slowed and turned onto a
taxiway, never getting closer than 5,600 feet to the other aircraft,
Brown said.

The FAA has not determined what led the controller to switch the
Southwest aircraft to the other runway as it prepared to land.

But typically, Marks said, controllers make such decisions in order to
use runways more efficiently.

The incident marked the first such near miss of 2006. Officials said
it pointed to the need to rework the runway configurations at LAX,
which has had one of the worst records for runway safety violations in
the nation in recent years.

Last year, the airport had five near-miss incidents. It had seven in
2004, nine in 2003, six in 2002 and nine in 2001.

"We've worked very closely with the city to identify what we can do to
improve runway safety at LAX," Brown said. "Our primary focus is on
reducing all runway incursions. We take them all seriously because we
see them as precursors to accidents, and our main goal is to prevent
runway collisions."

Although the controllers' union has complained in the past that
understaffing can lead overworked controllers to make more mistakes,
Marks said staffing did not appear to be a contributing factor on
Friday. He estimated that four controllers were on duty in the control
tower, the usual number for that hour of the night.
....

In article , Larry Dighera
wrote:

What sort of consequences are ATC personnel subject to as a result of
an operational error?

Well....

http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.php?id=21651

On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 16:41:17 GMT, Garner Miller
wrote in ::

In article , Larry Dighera
wrote:

What sort of consequences are ATC personnel subject to as a result of
an operational error?

Well....

http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.php?id=21651

ZURICH, Switzerland -- An air traffic controller who ordered a
passenger plane into the path of another aircraft over Germany --
a crash killing dozens of Russian children -- was stabbed to death
Wednesday in front of his wife ...

Unfortunately we're all subject to the acts of the lawless, but I was
referring to authorized consequences, enforced by the FAA and state
and local judiciary, as a result of ATC errors.

You know the old maxim as well as I do:

Pilot screws up, pilot gets killed.

Controller screws up, pilot gets killed.


Jim

Seems the controller should be yanked from active duty until the
investigation is complete.

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...

Are controllers given medical substance abuse tests after an incident
like this?

With an attitude like this:

"We're human beings and we do make mistakes," said Bob Marks, vice
president for the regional office of the National Air Traffic
Controllers Assn.

Dave Stadt wrote:
Seems the controller should be yanked from active duty until the
investigation is complete.

That's automatic.



Are controllers given medical substance abuse tests after an incident
like this?

They may be.



With an attitude like this:

"We're human beings and we do make mistakes," said Bob Marks, vice
president for the regional office of the National Air Traffic
Controllers Assn.

That's NATCA. They generally say stupid things. They can't help it,
they're a union.

On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 09:30:11 -0800, "RST Engineering"
wrote in
::

You know the old maxim as well as I do:

Pilot screws up, pilot gets killed.

Controller screws up, pilot gets killed.


In light of the Administrator's determination to implement user fees
for ATC services, wouldn't now be the time to make the consequences
for ATC errors commensurate with the consequences to those aboard the
flights subject to those errors?

It's one thing for the FAA to insulate ATC personnel from litigation
and responsibility for their errors, and it's quite another thing for
a NonGovernmental Organization's personnel to escape accountability
for the errors they may commit.

It seems to me, that the most equitable policy would be for individual
ATC personnel responsible for operational errors to have the added
personnel responsibility to make monetary restitution to the estates
and survivors subjected errors they committed.

On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 17:43:55 GMT, "Dave Stadt"
wrote in ::


Seems the controller should be yanked from active duty until the
investigation is complete.

That would be the very least action to be expected.

On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 11:31:06 -0700, Newps wrote
in ::


Are controllers given medical substance abuse tests after an incident
like this?

They may be.


Do you have any idea what criteria are used to determine if such
medical tests will be required?



With an attitude like this:

"We're human beings and we do make mistakes," said Bob Marks, vice
president for the regional office of the National Air Traffic
Controllers Assn.

That's NATCA. They generally say stupid things. They can't help it,
they're a union.

Does Mr. Marks represent you?

Larry Dighera wrote:

On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 11:31:06 -0700, Newps wrote
in ::


Are controllers given medical substance abuse tests after an incident
like this?

They may be.



Do you have any idea what criteria are used to determine if such
medical tests will be required?

Anytime there's an accident there will be a determination made as to
whether drug testing will be done, regardless of the controllers
actions. And I mean that literally. If you suddenly come up on my
frequency and announce you are going down because you are on fire I may
be drug tested to remove all doubt. Management has discretion for drug
testing if they feel it's needed. There's also random testing of course.



With an attitude like this:

"We're human beings and we do make mistakes," said Bob Marks, vice
president for the regional office of the National Air Traffic
Controllers Assn.

That's NATCA. They generally say stupid things. They can't help it,
they're a union.


Does Mr. Marks represent you?


He has to as I am by definition in the bargaining unit. I am not,
however, in the union. Of the 18 controllers here there will be 5 left
in the union as of March. The more they open their mouth the more they
lose at facilities like mine.