Doors popping open in flight

How serious is it on small twin engines with only one door? Or with 2
doors, for that matter?

A friend of mine tells me that he once had a twin engine Piper crash to
investigate due to ditching. It was later learned upon the conclusion of
the investigation that a passenger in the back seat was trying to switch
places with someone in the front and the door inadvertently popped open. At
that point the investigator determined, from his own similar experience,
that the plane sunk like a rock due to critical disruption of the airflow
to that could not be corrected in flight.
--The door could not be closed again!---

As for my friend with his similar experience, his friend's hand was all
bloody from trying to hold it closed as much as he could. Fortunately, they
made a safe emergency landing at an island the just happened to be nearby.

I've only flow small single engines and had NO IDEA how serious this could
be. They don't teach you that in flight school. Or is it because single
engines with only one door do not react the same as the twins.

Tell me the straight skinny so I know next time I go flying.

Thanks

bob wrote:
As for my friend with his similar experience, his friend's hand was all
bloody from trying to hold it closed as much as he could. Fortunately, they
made a safe emergency landing at an island the just happened to be nearby.


WTH? Why did he need to hold the door closed? The slipstream will hold it
closed. There may be a gap but I defy you to open that door in flight. Can you
open the door of your car going down the interstate? Try it at twice or three
times the speed.

I've had doors open in both Cherokees and Cessna singles and it's nothing more
than an aggravation. If it's raining you'll get wet. Otherwise you'll just
notice the noise and the draft.

I've had the door pop open in the Apache and the Aztec and there's an
aerodynamic buffet. It still isn't an emergency; just an annoyance.

I've never had the door pop open in a 400 series Cessna so I can't guess what
that would be like though I would think it's be more of a problem as the door
hinges top and bottom rather than along the leading edge. It ssems to me the
most likely scenario would be the top portion popping open rather than both
since there's a pin that pretty much precludes the lower section letting go.

Every time I've ever had a door open in flight I've gone on to my destination.
Trying to latch it tight in flight is an exercise in futility. OTOH, nobody is
ever going to fall out unless you've got aerobatics in mind. So fuggetaboutit.




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

bob wrote:

I've only flow small single engines and had NO IDEA how serious this could
be. They don't teach you that in flight school. Or is it because single
engines with only one door do not react the same as the twins.

Tell me the straight skinny so I know next time I go flying.

Pilot distraction is probably the only real danger in these cases, single
engine or twin. A cool head and proper prioritization will prevail every
time.

I fly a Bonanza V35 and have had the door pop open, the cargo door pop
open, and even the passenger window (second row of seats) pop completely
open and lock outward with a 5 year old child sitting next to it while
launching into IMC.

The door and the cargo door only open a fraction of an inch, due to the
slip stream and the only distraction here is a loud, cold cockpit. In
these cases the pilot must put the distraction on the back burner, fly the
aircraft, and decide to either land immediately and close the door on the
ground or continue to the destination with the noise and free air
conditioning.

With regards to the window opening, this initially scared the poop out of
me because it did so with a very loud BOOM seconds after liftoff. With a
child sitting next to the window and the fact that it was all the way open,
I decided to level and stabilize the aircraft, engage the AP, and attempt
one shot at closing it.

I then called ATC to request the level off and left turn away from the
departure corridor (class C airport) and explained that the window had just
opened. Upon approval I engaged the AP and monitored the aircraft for 30
seconds to ensure altitude and airspeed were stable. Once I was
comfortable that the aircraft was flying with the AP, I unbuckled, reached
around to the right rear passenger seat, grabbed the bar, and with way too
much force (thinking the slip stream would put up a fight), slammed the
window home and locked. It was actually pretty easy and quick.

Another call to ATC informing him of my success and we were again on our
way.

--
Peter

bob wrote:


I've only flow small single engines and had NO IDEA how serious this could
be. They don't teach you that in flight school.

They did at my flight school (Jeppesen program / 141 school). My CFI
popped the door on a PA-28, had me look it up in the Emergency
Procedures POH section, and close it via the book. The airplane flew
fine with the door open.

I don't know why a twin would be all that different. Two weeks ago, I
witnessed a Cessna twin have the forward baggage door pop open on
departure. He asked for priority on the CTAF, flew the pattern and
landed uneventfully.

On a single-engine, a door opening is not serious, but a
twin with a door open and the engine on the opposite side
might get interesting. The open door would probably raise
Vmca because of the air flow disruption on the side where
maximum rudder effectiveness would be required.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"bob" wrote in message
. ..
| How serious is it on small twin engines with only one
door? Or with 2
| doors, for that matter?
|
| A friend of mine tells me that he once had a twin engine
Piper crash to
| investigate due to ditching. It was later learned upon
the conclusion of
| the investigation that a passenger in the back seat was
trying to switch
| places with someone in the front and the door
inadvertently popped open. At
| that point the investigator determined, from his own
similar experience,
| that the plane sunk like a rock due to critical disruption
of the airflow
| to that could not be corrected in flight.
| --The door could not be closed again!---
|
| As for my friend with his similar experience, his
friend's hand was all
| bloody from trying to hold it closed as much as he could.
Fortunately, they
| made a safe emergency landing at an island the just
happened to be nearby.
|
| I've only flow small single engines and had NO IDEA how
serious this could
| be. They don't teach you that in flight school. Or is it
because single
| engines with only one door do not react the same as the
twins.
|
| Tell me the straight skinny so I know next time I go
flying.
|
| Thanks
|
|

Peter R. wrote:
bob wrote:

I've only flow small single engines and had NO IDEA how serious this could
be. They don't teach you that in flight school. Or is it because single
engines with only one door do not react the same as the twins.

Tell me the straight skinny so I know next time I go flying.

Pilot distraction is probably the only real danger in these cases, single
engine or twin. A cool head and proper prioritization will prevail every
time.
...
I agree with the pilot distraction comment. In fact, my seaplane
instructor advised me to be certain both doors (C172) were unlocked and
ready to open quickly. Things can happen fairly fast and sometimes you
have to use the right seat to approach a dock or to hook a mooring.

The real problem with a twin is if the forward baggage door opens, breaks
off due to air loads, and goes through the prop.

There have been several accidents due to this and all the ones I remember
were fatal. There was also an R-22 helicopter here in the NW that just had
the window come off the door a couple of years ago. That window went through
the tail rotor and caused a fatal crash. (This particular window was an
unapproved modification)

Many Cessna 206 and 207 aircraft have had their rear cargo door open in
flight. This is a suicide door and hinges the door to the rear. In this case
the door slams back against the fuselage and causes extensive damage, but
the airplane is controllable.

Best,
Karl
ATP,CFI,ETC
"Curator" N185KG


"bob" wrote in message
. ..
How serious is it on small twin engines with only one door? Or with 2
doors, for that matter?

A friend of mine tells me that he once had a twin engine Piper crash to
investigate due to ditching. It was later learned upon the conclusion of
the investigation that a passenger in the back seat was trying to switch
places with someone in the front and the door inadvertently popped open.
At that point the investigator determined, from his own similar
experience, that the plane sunk like a rock due to critical disruption of
the airflow to that could not be corrected in flight.
--The door could not be closed again!---

As for my friend with his similar experience, his friend's hand was all
bloody from trying to hold it closed as much as he could. Fortunately,
they made a safe emergency landing at an island the just happened to be
nearby.

I've only flow small single engines and had NO IDEA how serious this
could be. They don't teach you that in flight school. Or is it because
single engines with only one door do not react the same as the twins.

Tell me the straight skinny so I know next time I go flying.

Thanks

Bob,

As for my friend with his similar experience, his friend's hand was all
bloody from trying to hold it closed as much as he could.


Why did he try?

Normally, the car-type doors will open a certain amount and stay there in
the airflow. No big deal. Except for some planes, of course: I wouldn't
want to see it in the Tobago I fly, which has gull wing doors. Experiences
range from the door and its frame seriously getting bent to the door
ripping off and hitting the stabilizer. Not good.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

"bob" wrote in message
. ..
How serious is it on small twin engines with only one door? Or with 2
doors, for that matter?

A friend of mine tells me that he once had a twin engine Piper crash to
investigate due to ditching. It was later learned upon the conclusion of
the investigation that a passenger in the back seat was trying to switch
places with someone in the front and the door inadvertently popped open.
At that point the investigator determined, from his own similar
experience, that the plane sunk like a rock due to critical disruption of
the airflow to that could not be corrected in flight.
--The door could not be closed again!---

As for my friend with his similar experience, his friend's hand was all
bloody from trying to hold it closed as much as he could. Fortunately,
they made a safe emergency landing at an island the just happened to be
nearby.

I've only flow small single engines and had NO IDEA how serious this
could be. They don't teach you that in flight school. Or is it because
single engines with only one door do not react the same as the twins.

Tell me the straight skinny so I know next time I go flying.

Thanks

1965 Beech Travelair, two adults with bags, full fuel, still well under
gross, 500' MSL, gear up, flaps up, nice cool spring day, normal climb out =
1100 FPM, door pops open = 300 FPM, been there, done that :-(

Allen

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:


Every time I've ever had a door open in flight I've gone on to my destination.
Trying to latch it tight in flight is an exercise in futility.

It's actually easy if a POH procedure exists.

The ones I've actually used went something like:

XX knots IAS
cabin vents closed
storm window open
shut door

The closed vents, proper speed, and open window create a negative
pressure in the cabin, allowing the door to close easily.

The opinion that it's not much an comfort issue will not be shared by
the back seat pax. I flew the pattern in a PA28-180 with an open door,
and 100 MPH wind in the face was no fun. G That particular pilot
simply landed and shut it.