23 July OSH accident audio

00:01:15 minutes into the playback is when the accident occurred on 23
July

http://www.liveatc.net/.archive/kosh...2006-1330Z.mp3

Listening to stupidities flying in I can handle. Listening to someone die
isn't on my list.

Jim




"john smith" wrote in message
...
00:01:15 minutes into the playback is when the accident occurred on 23
July

http://www.liveatc.net/.archive/kosh...2006-1330Z.mp3

Reading about accidents helps pilots avoid the mistakes of others; seeing or
hearing accidents doesn't help anyone. How can we complain about media
sensationalizing airplane accidents when we have folks like John Smith doing
the same thing?

Bob Gardner

"john smith" wrote in message
...
00:01:15 minutes into the playback is when the accident occurred on 23
July

http://www.liveatc.net/.archive/kosh...2006-1330Z.mp3

Bob Gardner wrote:
Reading about accidents helps pilots avoid the mistakes of others; seeing or
hearing accidents doesn't help anyone. How can we complain about media
sensationalizing airplane accidents when we have folks like John Smith doing
the same thing?

Bob Gardner

"john smith" wrote in message
...

00:01:15 minutes into the playback is when the accident occurred on 23
July

http://www.liveatc.net/.archive/kosh...2006-1330Z.mp3





It is a shame that some folks have no shame.

Matt

Guys, you didn't listen.
It is about how the FAA handled things after the accident occurred. No
one knew what was going on and no one was sharing information with the
pilots.

"Bob Gardner" wrote:
Reading about accidents helps pilots avoid the mistakes of others;
seeing or hearing accidents doesn't help anyone. How can we complain
about media sensationalizing airplane accidents when we have folks
like John Smith doing the same thing?

I listened several minutes into the recording and unless I missed
something, there was no actual "recording" of the accident. There doesn't
seem to be anything sensational in the recording at all - no one mentions
the accident. Just a lot of fancy ATC footwork to deal with closing the
runway and then the airport. I actually found that aspect somewhat
educational. YMMV.


Bob Gardner

"john smith" wrote in message

om...
00:01:15 minutes into the playback is when the accident occurred on
23 July

http://www.liveatc.net/.archive/kosh...2006-1330Z.mp3

Matt Whiting wrote:
Bob Gardner wrote:
Reading about accidents helps pilots avoid the mistakes of others;
seeing or hearing accidents doesn't help anyone. How can we complain
about media sensationalizing airplane accidents when we have folks
like John Smith doing the same thing?

Bob Gardner

"john smith" wrote in message
.
com...

00:01:15 minutes into the playback is when the accident occurred on
23 July

http://www.liveatc.net/.archive/kosh...2006-1330Z.mp3


It is a shame that some folks have no shame.

It's actually an interesting listen. John Smith has nothing to be ashamed
of.

In article ,
"RST Engineering" wrote:

Listening to stupidities flying in I can handle. Listening to someone die
isn't on my list.

Jim, you don't "hear anyone dieing!"
What you hear is how the FAA failed to share information with the pilots
via ATIS and the FISKE controllers. This was why there was a meltdown in
the Green Lake hold. For three hours, no one knew what was going on. Had
the pilots and controllers been informed, many people probably would
have headed for outlying airports to wait it out. Instead, there was a
second near disaster on another runway after they started emptying the
holding areas. This is a lesson learned situation.

My point was that listening to audio or viewing video does nothing to help
Joe Sixpack avoid similar accidents.

Bob Gardner

"Jim Logajan" wrote in message
.. .
"Bob Gardner" wrote:
Reading about accidents helps pilots avoid the mistakes of others;
seeing or hearing accidents doesn't help anyone. How can we complain
about media sensationalizing airplane accidents when we have folks
like John Smith doing the same thing?

I listened several minutes into the recording and unless I missed
something, there was no actual "recording" of the accident. There doesn't
seem to be anything sensational in the recording at all - no one mentions
the accident. Just a lot of fancy ATC footwork to deal with closing the
runway and then the airport. I actually found that aspect somewhat
educational. YMMV.


Bob Gardner

"john smith" wrote in message

om...
00:01:15 minutes into the playback is when the accident occurred on
23 July

http://www.liveatc.net/.archive/kosh...2006-1330Z.mp3

Hey I know... let's not listen to it.
Instead let's lambaste the poster.
The reasons TO listen center around the male and female tower controllers
who I think did a wonderful job handling the traffic that they were faced
with. What you will hear is how the tower closed the runway, redirected
landing 27 traffic to 36, then closed the airport, had pattern traffic hold
in the pattern, additional traffic hold east of the airport, more traffic
holding SW of the airport, more holding over the lake and or sent them back
outbound for the RIPON arrival. Once 36 was re-opened they also had to deal
with IFR arrivals from Chicago Center. The tower guys are to be commended
for what they accomplished in very short order and with a high degree of
calm and professional mannerisms.

What you will not hear are the FISKE controllers. That's the archive that
needs to be obtained, posted, and critiqued. It's my understanding from
people that were involved in the multi-hour hold that they were not informed
of the accident, not given any reason for the runway closure, nor were they
told when they could be expected to be released from the hold. Promises of
"we'll get you down as fast as we can" and "we'll get you in, just keep
holding" were common but no estimations of how long they'd be holding were
given. A small amount of info would have saved much frustration.


Attention all aircraft inbound from RIPON or holding at FISKE, Green Lake,
or Rush Lake.
The Oshkosh airport is closed due to an accident.
There are aircraft holding at several locations and altitudes east of the
airport, once the airport is open we need to clear the airspace by getting
those aircraft down first.
We do not know when we will be able to release you from the hold.
If you are unprepared or unable to hold for an undetermined length of time,
we suggest leaving the hold for an alternate airport.

Easy announcement. Although every pilot must determine his own comfort
level and has the ability to "bug out" when it comes to holding with minimal
information about the reason or the length of the hold, the FISKE
controllers could have provided information that would have decreased the
frustration level and added a level of understanding.

Jim