insane IMC

Hello Folks



I live and fly in North Carolina. I am a 150-hour
private pilot about to take my instrument checkride.I need some help
overcoming my apprehension regarding IMC.
90 percent of my actual IMC has been after work,in the
hot summer months, in the dark dodging thunderstorm cells on x-country
flights.The approach controllers can't see the weather, just yesterday
they told us we were in a thunder cell while were were in VMC, 3 miles,
haze. Another time, while getting bounced near a towering cumulus
illuminated by lightning, an approach controller responded to our
request for cloud top info with a " ah..we're closed, contact Seymour
Johnson approach on their frequency."
I think this is insane, but how can one build actual
IMC experience without getting killed? Am I toying with my life in a
172 with no onboard weather equipment? Am I going to get more
confident? How many hours of actual IMC did YOU require before you
could relax and think clearly in the soup?Any thoughts appreciated.

90 percent of my actual IMC has been after work,in the
hot summer months, in the dark dodging thunderstorm cells on x-country
flights.The approach controllers can't see the weather, just yesterday
they told us we were in a thunder cell while were were in VMC, 3 miles,
haze. Another time, while getting bounced near a towering cumulus
illuminated by lightning, an approach controller responded to our
request for cloud top info with a " ah..we're closed, contact Seymour
Johnson approach on their frequency."

I think this is insane

If it is as you describe it, then it =is= insane, especially for a
relataively new pilot, let alone new to IMC. Thuderstorms should be
entered only in dreams.

Alas, some parts of the country are either VFR or thunderstorms. Others
are VFR or ice (like the Northeast in winter).

It may be that different times of year will offer some actual IFR time
which is not convective. I'm not all that familiar with the weather out
there.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote:
90 percent of my actual IMC has been after work,in the
hot summer months, in the dark dodging thunderstorm cells on x-country
flights.The approach controllers can't see the weather, just yesterday
they told us we were in a thunder cell while were were in VMC, 3 miles,
haze. Another time, while getting bounced near a towering cumulus
illuminated by lightning, an approach controller responded to our
request for cloud top info with a " ah..we're closed, contact Seymour
Johnson approach on their frequency."

I think this is insane

If it is as you describe it, then it =is= insane, especially for a
relataively new pilot, let alone new to IMC. Thuderstorms should be
entered only in dreams.

Alas, some parts of the country are either VFR or thunderstorms. Others
are VFR or ice (like the Northeast in winter).

It may be that different times of year will offer some actual IFR time
which is not convective. I'm not all that familiar with the weather out
there.

Gotta agree with Jose here. Summer may offer the most challenging
weather due to thunderstorms. Getting anywhere near convective stuff is
scary even for seasoned pilots. If you can dodge t-storms in the dark
(in a 172, no less) without any kind of wx equipment aboard you're a
better man than me. I never flew any hard IFR until I got in with a
charter company and started flying a Pilatus. Having good equipment
makes a huge difference (radar, Nexrad downlink) when flying through
the nasty stuff. We still get bounced around but we're able to avoid
the worst of it for the most part.

In article om,
"Kingfish" wrote:

Jose wrote:
90 percent of my actual IMC has been after work,in the
hot summer months, in the dark dodging thunderstorm cells on x-country
flights.The approach controllers can't see the weather, just yesterday
they told us we were in a thunder cell while were were in VMC, 3 miles,
haze. Another time, while getting bounced near a towering cumulus
illuminated by lightning, an approach controller responded to our
request for cloud top info with a " ah..we're closed, contact Seymour
Johnson approach on their frequency."

I think this is insane

If it is as you describe it, then it =is= insane, especially for a
relataively new pilot, let alone new to IMC. Thuderstorms should be
entered only in dreams.

Alas, some parts of the country are either VFR or thunderstorms. Others
are VFR or ice (like the Northeast in winter).

It may be that different times of year will offer some actual IFR time
which is not convective. I'm not all that familiar with the weather out
there.

Gotta agree with Jose here. Summer may offer the most challenging
weather due to thunderstorms. Getting anywhere near convective stuff is
scary even for seasoned pilots. If you can dodge t-storms in the dark
(in a 172, no less) without any kind of wx equipment aboard you're a
better man than me. I never flew any hard IFR until I got in with a
charter company and started flying a Pilatus. Having good equipment
makes a huge difference (radar, Nexrad downlink) when flying through
the nasty stuff. We still get bounced around but we're able to avoid
the worst of it for the most part.

The most important lessons I learned from my instrument training was
what weather not to fly in. Without onboard weather depicting equipment,
I will not fly into any area where thunderstorms are in progress nor are
likely to form as the day progresses. Day nor night. During the day, I
will fly in the vicinity of Level 4 and into areas of Level 3
rainshowers. I have worked my experience to that level gradually by
flying locally.
If there is visible lightning along your path, do not go there.
If there is strong convective activity, do not go there.
Use flight service and ATC to get a picture of the activity ahead.
If you start your flight VFR and continue toward areas of IFR
conditions, you will be given sufficient warning that you are
approaching severe weather. You will first notice the formation of few
small cumulus clouds within 2000-3000 feet agl. These will become
progressively more dense (scattered to broken to overcast). You will
also see increasing cloud volume and height. In most cases, you will not
be able to outclimb the vertical development. Again, use ATC and FSS to
deviate around the areas of moderate and severe cells.

Napoleon Dynamite wrote:
snipped scary thunderstorm stuff

How many hours of actual IMC did YOU require before you
could relax and think clearly in the soup?Any thoughts appreciated.

Well, I don't go anywhere near thunderstorms. I just don't have the
balls for that. They scare the hell out of me. Need I go on?

Anyway, I built most of my actual time (close to 100 hours) in the few
months/days that we had non-convective/non-icing IMC up north.
Generally this meant hopping in a plane anytime the surface temp was
above 60 and the ceilings below 1000 feet. We really had to look for
weather like this, and everyone took advantage of it when they could.

So I didn't require a lot of IMC before I felt safe - I just needed to
know that some thunderstorm wasn't go to reach down and get me.

If there is visible lightning along your path, do not go there.

At night lightning is visible for a hundred miles, so don't let it (by
itself) spook you. But do consider all the other information. I once
saw a puffly little cumulous cloud (couldn't have been more than two
thousand feet thick) light up with lightning. I thought this quite odd,
but rather than penetrate I got cleared above it. Then I saw the
thunderstorm a hundred or so miles ahead, well beyond my destination.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Napoleon Dynamite wrote:
I live and fly in North Carolina. I am a 150-hour
private pilot about to take my instrument checkride.I need some help
overcoming my apprehension regarding IMC.
90 percent of my actual IMC has been after work,in the
hot summer months, in the dark dodging thunderstorm cells on x-country
flights


Unfortunately it is summertime in the Carolinas with all the weather that
brings. Back when I was flying checks all over NC, I had one run that required
me to sit out at the Greenville, NC airport until around 1700, then scoot over
to Rocky Mount for more load, then over to Fayetteville and finally back to
Charlotte. The lateness of the day pretty much guaranteed you got to tangle
with convective weather along the way. There is a band of weather that forms
almost every afternoon out that way that made life "interesting". Do you ever
get used to flying in and around thunderstorms? Hell, no! I've been through
many cells in my day and I still get queasy at the thought.

Lucky for you summer is only one season out of the year. With the exception of
the occasional icing situations in the winter, IFR flying in the Carolinas is
more likely to involve poor visibility, cloud cover, and/or rain. That's a lot
easier to take.

You want to absolutely enjoy IFR flying? Wait until late summer or early fall
and shoot for a takeoff around 0830 or 0900, taking off from a low ceiling
airport and fly to improving weather. You take off, go IFR at 200-300 feet and
then either cruise in smooth clouds until you shoot an approach to your
destination, or even better, you climb out and get on top, only to enter the
goop again at your destination. Shoot an ILS down to 300-400 feet so you're not
too uptight about missing and life is sweet indeed.

You can get a lot of satisfaction out of a flight like that. It's the world's
finest video game.

BTW, I commend you on getting your instrument rating (soon) so early in your
career. It makes a world of difference if you need to get somewhere on a
schedule. And as far as I'm concerned, there is no VFR flying at night if
you're smart (at least around here).

Want to ease your fears during this early part of your career? Take another
more experienced instrument pilot (not an instructor) along on your cross
countries for a while. Don't take one along for every flight though or you'll
possibly come to fear solo IFR.

BTW: autopilots are excellent for reducing single pilot workload while you pull
out charts, etc. If you have one, use it. I personally only used one during
cruise but I did use it if I had one for that.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

On 1 Aug 2006 17:55:55 -0700, "Napoleon Dynamite"
wrote:

Hello Folks



I live and fly in North Carolina. I am a 150-hour
private pilot about to take my instrument checkride.I need some help
overcoming my apprehension regarding IMC.
90 percent of my actual IMC has been after work,in the
hot summer months, in the dark dodging thunderstorm cells on x-country
flights.The approach controllers can't see the weather, just yesterday
they told us we were in a thunder cell while were were in VMC, 3 miles,
haze. Another time, while getting bounced near a towering cumulus
illuminated by lightning, an approach controller responded to our
request for cloud top info with a " ah..we're closed, contact Seymour
Johnson approach on their frequency."
I think this is insane, but how can one build actual
IMC experience without getting killed? Am I toying with my life in a
172 with no onboard weather equipment? Am I going to get more
confident? How many hours of actual IMC did YOU require before you
could relax and think clearly in the soup?Any thoughts appreciated.

Have you discussed these fears with your instructor? After all, he's been
the PIC for these flights so has the responsibility to keep you "out of the
weeds". He should also be familiar with your local weather variations.

What has he said about clearance from cells? How close did he think you
were to that "towering cumulus"? Was the lightening from within the cloud
or from a cell miles away? I've seen a line of cells, at night, that I
though were fairly close. ATC radar showed them to be 75+ miles away.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

"ND" == Napoleon Dynamite writes:
ND I think this is insane

Sure sounds like it.

ND but how
ND can one build actual IMC experience without getting killed?

Come to California, fly in and out of the coastal stratus (Los Angeles
or San Francisco Bay)...

And as far as I'm concerned, there is no VFR flying at night if
you're smart (at least around here).

Why? And where is "around here"?

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.