FAA Written Test

I am preparing to take my written Commercial Glider exam and have been
using various test guides and on line practice tests. I am curious as
to why there are questions pertaining to radio navigation included in
the question pool. Has anyone ever used a VOR or ADF in a glider?

Mike

Mike wrote:
I am preparing to take my written Commercial Glider exam and have been
using various test guides and on line practice tests. I am curious as
to why there are questions pertaining to radio navigation included in
the question pool. Has anyone ever used a VOR or ADF in a glider?

It's certainly possible, and some sailplanes have had VOR installed.

Modern handheld radios have the VOR feature, so it's actually more
likely for someone to use this today. It's a good idea for glider
pilots to be aware of VORs, as they can be possible points of
congestion as airplanes will overfly them as they go XC. Though, with
GPS, there's probably a lot more "direct" flying now.

Also, if talking to ATC or FSS, providing a position relative to a VOR
is the most expeditious means of telling tehm where you are...

-Tom

Mike wrote:
I am preparing to take my written Commercial Glider exam and have been
using various test guides and on line practice tests. I am curious as
to why there are questions pertaining to radio navigation included in
the question pool. Has anyone ever used a VOR or ADF in a glider?

Mike


I just took the commercial glider written exam, and 9 of the 100
questions on my exam pertained to this subject. As for why the FAA
thinks such questions are relevant -- who knows?

Greg Arnold wrote:
Mike wrote:
I am preparing to take my written Commercial Glider exam and have been
using various test guides and on line practice tests. I am curious as
to why there are questions pertaining to radio navigation included in
the question pool. Has anyone ever used a VOR or ADF in a glider?

Mike


Just took mine too. The largely irrelevant VOR-type questions are at
least better than the wrong, misleading or antiquated glider questions.
My favorite: "After a bounce on landing you should close the spoilers
and keep them closed." Try that in our Duo-Discus with 500 feet of
runway left....

(Our local examiner actually gave a sensible answer to this VOR
question. A glider license lets you fly motorgliders, some of which are
a lot more motor than glider. Those definitely have VORs installed.)

John Cochrane BB

The local Grob-109B had LORAN and VOR installed...
gyro instruments... I am Airplane-Instrument rated,
so I got my 3 hours "in a glider" and took it in some
clouds... legally, with a clearance.

What a HOOT!

(Our local examiner actually gave a sensible answer to this VOR
question. A glider license lets you fly motorgliders, some of which are
a lot more motor than glider. Those definitely have VORs installed.)

Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocations!"
--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jeratfrii.com http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot BM218 HAM N0FZD 240 Young Eagles!

And I thought my test with six out of 100 questions
pertaining to radio navigation was a bit much. This
was back in the previous century, around 1990 or 1991.

I wonder how many pure gliders have VOR's or ADF's
in them?

Maybe the test should be changed and ask really important
questions on, say, GPS and ask, for instance, what
is the difference between GPS altitude and barometric
pressure altitude and how will this knowledge help
you fly better?

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA




At 16:54 16 August 2006, Greg Arnold wrote:
Mike wrote:
I am preparing to take my written Commercial Glider
exam and have been
using various test guides and on line practice tests.
I am curious as
to why there are questions pertaining to radio navigation
included in
the question pool. Has anyone ever used a VOR or ADF
in a glider?

Mike


I just took the commercial glider written exam, and
9 of the 100
questions on my exam pertained to this subject. As
for why the FAA
thinks such questions are relevant -- who knows?

BB wrote:
Greg Arnold wrote:
Mike wrote:
I am preparing to take my written Commercial Glider exam and have been
using various test guides and on line practice tests. I am curious as
to why there are questions pertaining to radio navigation included in
the question pool. Has anyone ever used a VOR or ADF in a glider?

Mike


Just took mine too. The largely irrelevant VOR-type questions are at
least better than the wrong, misleading or antiquated glider questions.
My favorite: "After a bounce on landing you should close the spoilers
and keep them closed." Try that in our Duo-Discus with 500 feet of
runway left....

Yeah, some of the glider questions are real doozies. If you actually
give the correct (non-FAA) answers, you probably can't get a score above
90%.


(Our local examiner actually gave a sensible answer to this VOR
question. A glider license lets you fly motorgliders, some of which are
a lot more motor than glider. Those definitely have VORs installed.)

John Cochrane BB


I am not sure that is a sensible answer. Pilots use the commercial
license to take up others for pay, and that is almost never done in
motorgliders. Nor is it done on cross-country flights, and that is the
only place where radio navigation might be arguably relevant. The
motorglider theory would make more sense for pilots taking the private
exam, but I don't think they ask such questions there.

Mike wrote:
I am preparing to take my written Commercial Glider exam and have been
using various test guides and on line practice tests. I am curious as
to why there are questions pertaining to radio navigation included in
the question pool. Has anyone ever used a VOR or ADF in a glider?

Mike

The bottom line is they have no place on the Glider PP, Com or CFIG
exams. If the SSA wanted to help us they would lobby to improve the
exam to remove the VOR, ADF and NDB questions as well as getting rid of
the outdated questions (am I going to push my Ventus onto it's nose
skid if I land hot?). The SSA should work with the FAA to make a more
meaningful exam. Just because a few percent of motorgliders (that
really should be classified as airplanes) might have one does not mean
it should be taught to most glider pilots.

I have not turned on the VOR in my power plane in four years. It is an
outdated system that should be allowed to die quickly.

Tim

Greg Arnold wrote:
Mike wrote:
I am preparing to take my written Commercial Glider exam and have been
using various test guides and on line practice tests. I am curious as
to why there are questions pertaining to radio navigation included in
the question pool. Has anyone ever used a VOR or ADF in a glider?

Mike


I just took the commercial glider written exam, and 9 of the 100
questions on my exam pertained to this subject. As for why the FAA
thinks such questions are relevant -- who knows?


First, find your FAA Practical Test Standards booklet (PTS) and open to
page 1. The FAA welcomes your input and gives you the address to send
your written comments. I've talked with these FAA folks in Oklahoma
City and they are really interested in updating to "real world" testing
scenarios.

Next, know that the FAA is planning to update this PTS and the COM
Knowledge Test soon, and will use the new FAA Glider Flying Handbook
FAA-H-8083-13 as a reference. Chapters 4 and 11 discuss GPS
navigation. Tom Knauff sells his updated version at www.eglider.org

Also see the training bibliography (list of training texts and videos)
at the Soaring Safety Foundation website www.soaringsafety.org

In the meantime if you are taking the knowledge test (written) anytime
soon, you'll need to learn about VOR navigation. So study - it's
elegant and not that hard, and there are several good explanations in
FAA and other publications. As for why? - In the 1960's, I remember
seeing VOR receivers in sailplanes usually used for cross country in
areas of the USA where pilotage navigation was difficult due to haze,
lack of checkpoints or non-descript terrain. I recall the SSA pondered
a rule against VOR receivers for contests back then.

Anyhow, look at your PTS Area of Operation VIII (Navigation), Task A.
There is no stated requirement to demonstrate VOR or GPS navigation on
the actual checkride (Practical Test), although an Examiner might see
number 7 as a portal through which s/he could explore your VOR or GPS
knowledge. Keep in mind that if you bring a glider (or motorglider)
with a VOR or GPS onboard to your checkride, the Examiner might ask you
to demonstrate how it works. For that matter, if you bring a glider
with a pellet variometer, then you should know how that vintage (but
reliable) instrument works as well.

By the way, I've had some students show up for glider training with
their portable GPS in hand, and they really know how to make those
amazing little devices sing. Then we pull out a sectional chart and
ask them to plot a cross country course - with the batteries removed
from their GPS. Suddenly the singing stops. My point is - know how to
do it all - it's all really interesting anyhow. Ask any active CFIG -
we're here to help.

Please also remember that the most important piece of glass in your
glass cockpit is - the plexiglas. I hate thermaling opposite a
head-down techno-pilot when they don't look around for other
sailplanes, birds, dustdevils, new wisps of cloud, wind shifts, large
rocks, etc. I outclimb them anyway, 'cause they miss the really
important information (and scenery) outside.

Good luck in your studies for the FAA tests. Again, talk with your
CFIG for help on your weaker areas of knowledge.

Burt Compton
Master CFI
FAA Designated Pilot Examiner
Marfa, Texas

Burt Compton - Marfa wrote:
Greg Arnold wrote:
Mike wrote:
I am preparing to take my written Commercial Glider exam and have been
using various test guides and on line practice tests. I am curious as
to why there are questions pertaining to radio navigation included in
the question pool. Has anyone ever used a VOR or ADF in a glider?

Mike


I just took the commercial glider written exam, and 9 of the 100
questions on my exam pertained to this subject. As for why the FAA
thinks such questions are relevant -- who knows?


First, find your FAA Practical Test Standards booklet (PTS) and open to
page 1. The FAA welcomes your input and gives you the address to send
your written comments. I've talked with these FAA folks in Oklahoma
City and they are really interested in updating to "real world" testing
scenarios.

Next, know that the FAA is planning to update this PTS and the COM
Knowledge Test soon, and will use the new FAA Glider Flying Handbook
FAA-H-8083-13 as a reference. Chapters 4 and 11 discuss GPS
navigation. Tom Knauff sells his updated version at www.eglider.org

Also see the training bibliography (list of training texts and videos)
at the Soaring Safety Foundation website www.soaringsafety.org

In the meantime if you are taking the knowledge test (written) anytime
soon, you'll need to learn about VOR navigation. So study - it's
elegant and not that hard, and there are several good explanations in
FAA and other publications. As for why? - In the 1960's, I remember
seeing VOR receivers in sailplanes usually used for cross country in
areas of the USA where pilotage navigation was difficult due to haze,
lack of checkpoints or non-descript terrain. I recall the SSA pondered
a rule against VOR receivers for contests back then.

Anyhow, look at your PTS Area of Operation VIII (Navigation), Task A.
There is no stated requirement to demonstrate VOR or GPS navigation on
the actual checkride (Practical Test), although an Examiner might see
number 7 as a portal through which s/he could explore your VOR or GPS
knowledge. Keep in mind that if you bring a glider (or motorglider)
with a VOR or GPS onboard to your checkride, the Examiner might ask you
to demonstrate how it works. For that matter, if you bring a glider
with a pellet variometer, then you should know how that vintage (but
reliable) instrument works as well.

By the way, I've had some students show up for glider training with
their portable GPS in hand, and they really know how to make those
amazing little devices sing. Then we pull out a sectional chart and
ask them to plot a cross country course - with the batteries removed
from their GPS. Suddenly the singing stops. My point is - know how to
do it all - it's all really interesting anyhow. Ask any active CFIG -
we're here to help.

Please also remember that the most important piece of glass in your
glass cockpit is - the plexiglas. I hate thermaling opposite a
head-down techno-pilot when they don't look around for other
sailplanes, birds, dustdevils, new wisps of cloud, wind shifts, large
rocks, etc. I outclimb them anyway, 'cause they miss the really
important information (and scenery) outside.

Good luck in your studies for the FAA tests. Again, talk with your
CFIG for help on your weaker areas of knowledge.

Burt Compton
Master CFI
FAA Designated Pilot Examiner
Marfa, Texas
The new CFI-G PTS is online, effective 1 Oct 2006
http://www.faa.gov/education_researc...x.cfm?print=go

Frank Whiteley