Surface radiators for water cooled engines

Intercoolers of the same config. were used on early model P-38's. They ducted
pressurized air along the insides of the leading edges, then into the carb.
They all had problems with cooling efficency and leaks.

Several famous Thompson Trophy (sea/float planes) winners used surface
radiators to some degree. Most notably the Supermarines. Don't know what kind
of problems they had, but its worth a look, and a grain of salt.

Harry

I'm not sure who was saying that it had been tried and it didn't work
as several people of given examples of successful racing aircraft
using surface radiators.

Several famous Thompson Trophy (sea/float planes) winners used surface
radiators to some degree. Most notably the Supermarines. Don't know what kind
of problems they had, but its worth a look, and a grain of salt.

The guy that was saying an airplane waiting in line is the same as a
car idling in traffic is off base because even with zero airspeed that
prop is blowing turbulent air across the cowl.

The wing radiators aren't going to be as efficient per unit area as
the cowl or other parts of the aircraft in turbulent flow.

I was under the impression that Voyager used fuel efficient versions
of the traditional aircooled engines commonly used today, so I'd like
to hear more about the pickup truck stories.

And just because something has been tried before and failed, doesn't
mean the concept should be abandoned. Haven't you ever seen anyone
flub an attempt or do an experiment with an agenda? Why should their
oversight stop others from doing better. And those old times were
lacking many of the tools available today, mainly the cheap
availability of computing power. You have part time hacks doing
analysis orders of magnitude more accurate than they were doing back
the 20-30's.

(Jay) wrote:


And just because something has been tried before and failed, doesn't
mean the concept should be abandoned. Haven't you ever seen anyone
flub an attempt or do an experiment with an agenda? Why should their
oversight stop others from doing better. And those old times were
lacking many of the tools available today, mainly the cheap
availability of computing power. You have part time hacks doing
analysis orders of magnitude more accurate than they were doing back
the 20-30's.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Commentary like yours won't buy a cup of coffee.

If you're so smart, lead the way or be pegged as....
a typical newbie making silly little motor boat noises
in a very large sea of knowledge.


Barnyard BOb - 50 years of flight

"Barnyard BOb --" wrote in message
...

(Jay) wrote:
analysis orders of magnitude more accurate than they were doing
back
the 20-30's.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Commentary like yours won't buy a cup of coffee.

If you're so smart, lead the way or be pegged as....
a typical newbie making silly little motor boat noises
in a very large sea of knowledge.


Priceless putdown.
Lol
--

..
--
Cheers,
Jonathan Lowe
modelflyer at antispam dot net

Antispam trap in place



Barnyard BOb - 50 years of flight

Jay wrote:

I was under the impression that Voyager used fuel efficient versions
of the traditional aircooled engines commonly used today, so I'd like
to hear more about the pickup truck stories.

Do your homework. 60 seconds of Google and you would have learned that Voyager used
a pair of Teledyne Continental IOL-200 engines. In case you don't know it, that "L"
in the engine type means "liquid cooled".

Russell Kent

Russell Kent wrote:

Jay wrote:

I was under the impression that Voyager used fuel efficient versions
of the traditional aircooled engines commonly used today, so I'd like
to hear more about the pickup truck stories.

Do your homework. 60 seconds of Google and you would have learned that Voyager used
a pair of Teledyne Continental IOL-200 engines. In case you don't know it, that "L"
in the engine type means "liquid cooled".

Russell Kent
++++++++++++++++++++++++

Tsk, tsk....

Teledyne Continental 0-240 piston engine (forward)

http://www.nasm.si.edu/galleries/gal108/gal108.html
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/research/voyager/
http://www.va-works.com/projects/voyager.html


Barnyard BOb --

Barnyard BOb -- wrote:

Russell Kent wrote:

Jay wrote:

I was under the impression that Voyager used fuel efficient versions
of the traditional aircooled engines commonly used today, so I'd like
to hear more about the pickup truck stories.

Do your homework. 60 seconds of Google and you would have learned that Voyager used
a pair of Teledyne Continental IOL-200 engines. In case you don't know it, that "L"
in the engine type means "liquid cooled".

Russell Kent
++++++++++++++++++++++++

Tsk, tsk....

Teledyne Continental 0-240 piston engine (forward)

http://www.nasm.si.edu/galleries/gal108/gal108.html
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/research/voyager/
http://www.va-works.com/projects/voyager.html


Arrggg.. Hoisted by my own petard. In my rush to prove how quickly the information was
available ("60 seconds of Google") I failed to read the article for content.

http://www.nasm.si.edu/nasm/aero/aircraft/rutanvoy.htm

I'll take my crow grilled with a little bit of Mesquite spices please.

Russell Kent

In article , Russell Kent writes:


Arrggg.. Hoisted by my own petard. In my rush to prove how quickly the
information was
available ("60 seconds of Google") I failed to read the article for content.

http://www.nasm.si.edu/nasm/aero/aircraft/rutanvoy.htm

I'll take my crow grilled with a little bit of Mesquite spices please.

Russell Kent



Russell, you are a class act.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

There is an engine in the U.S. patent offices (so nobody can use it)
developed by 'Smokey' who wrote a self help column in Popular
Science magazine for years, that doesn't use a radiator. It takes the
heat from the engine and uses it to preheat the fuel to pre detonation
temperature and thus allows 55% of fuel energy to be used rather
than the 12% now used in conventional engines.
You should look into this. I became aware of it a few months ago.
It can be found in the 1980 or 1984 issues.


Jay wrote:

I'd like to see some discussion on surface radiators instead of how to
build plenums directing air through auto radiators. Seems like you
could braze aluminum tubing onto the inner surface of the lower cowl,
add a sheet of insulation on top of that on the inside and you'd have
a particularly low drag radiator. The cowling is going to get blasted
with turbulant air anyway, might as well heat that air up a little as
it swirls by the surface.

The holes in the front of the cowling make some sense for an air
cooled engine where the temperature differential is high and you can
direct some air (with lots of drag) directly onto the heads. But if
you have a water cooled engine, you can do things differently and it
would seem with lower drag. Drag is the primary predictor of top
speed, beyond horsepower even.

Wooduuuward praised:

There is an engine in the U.S. patent offices (so nobody can use it)
developed by 'Smokey' who wrote a self help column in Popular
Science magazine for years, that doesn't use a radiator. It takes the
heat from the engine and uses it to preheat the fuel to pre detonation
temperature and thus allows 55% of fuel energy to be used rather
than the 12% now used in conventional engines.
You should look into this. I became aware of it a few months ago.
It can be found in the 1980 or 1984 issues.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The fellow of which you speak is Henry "Smokey" Yunick.
He was my hero back in the 50's, when I was the average
impressionable teeny bopper subject to spouting stuff like you.

FWIW....
Imply what you will, but there is NOTHING to look into
application-wise, where surface radiators are concerned or
anything else that a backyard builder can readily put to use.
http://www.bankspower.com/tech_coolair.cfm


Barnyard BOb -- 50 years of flight