AS/MEL now need ATC permission over East River

!FDC 6/3495 ZNY EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE, VFR
FLIGHT OPERATIONS INVOLVING FIXED WING AIRCRAFT (EXCLUDING AMPHIBIOUS
FIXED WING AIRCRAFT LANDING OR DEPARTING NEW YORK SKYPORTS INC
SEAPLANE BASE) IN THE EAST RIVER CLASS B EXCLUSION AREA EXTENDING
FROM THE SOUTHWESTERN TIP OF GOVERNORS ISLAND TO THE NORTH TIP OF
ROOSEVELT ISLAND, ARE PROHIBITED UNLESS AUTHORIZED AND BEING
CONTROLLED BY ATC. TO OBTAIN AUTHORIZATION CONTACT LGA ATCT SOUTH OF
GOVERNORS ISLAND ON 126.05.

Also NYT:
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/nyre...rtner=homepage

--Gary

This restriction strikes me as semi-reasonable, since many or most pilots
(including me) already considered the East River U-turn (surrounded by dense
traffic) to be too risky to fly there. Now, ATC can ensure that you don't
fly up the river unless they're going to clear you to continue all the way.
(Helicopters and seaplanes are properly excluded from the restriction.)

The main problem I see is that the new restriction starts at the southwest
tip of Governor's Island instead of the northeast tip. That seems like an
unnecessary complication to navigation there, especially since it forces
pilots flying past to descend to 1100' instead of remaining just below
1500'. Perhaps that part of the rule can be changed. (skyvector.com)

--Gary

!FDC 6/3495 ZNY EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE, VFR
FLIGHT OPERATIONS INVOLVING FIXED WING AIRCRAFT (EXCLUDING AMPHIBIOUS
FIXED WING AIRCRAFT LANDING OR DEPARTING NEW YORK SKYPORTS INC
SEAPLANE BASE) IN THE EAST RIVER CLASS B EXCLUSION AREA EXTENDING
FROM THE SOUTHWESTERN TIP OF GOVERNORS ISLAND TO THE NORTH TIP OF
ROOSEVELT ISLAND, ARE PROHIBITED UNLESS AUTHORIZED AND BEING
CONTROLLED BY ATC. TO OBTAIN AUTHORIZATION CONTACT LGA ATCT SOUTH OF
GOVERNORS ISLAND ON 126.05.

Also NYT:
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/nyre...rtner=homepage

This a change that I can live with. This just moved the end of the
"canyon" to the SW end of Roosevelt Island. This means that you can
still fly up the East river to almost Central Park. The Hudson corridor
is unaffected, plus, similar rules have not been put up over several
other large US cities. I think GA pilots should accept this graciously
as it does little to our right to fly, and may quiet the calls to ban
GA from flying over cities. That was a tight turn anyway. I think we
got off easy.

Bud

Gary Drescher wrote:
This restriction strikes me as semi-reasonable, since many or most pilots
(including me) already considered the East River U-turn (surrounded by dense
traffic) to be too risky to fly there. Now, ATC can ensure that you don't
fly up the river unless they're going to clear you to continue all the way.
(Helicopters and seaplanes are properly excluded from the restriction.)

The main problem I see is that the new restriction starts at the southwest
tip of Governor's Island instead of the northeast tip. That seems like an
unnecessary complication to navigation there, especially since it forces
pilots flying past to descend to 1100' instead of remaining just below
1500'. Perhaps that part of the rule can be changed. (skyvector.com)

--Gary

!FDC 6/3495 ZNY EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE, VFR
FLIGHT OPERATIONS INVOLVING FIXED WING AIRCRAFT (EXCLUDING AMPHIBIOUS
FIXED WING AIRCRAFT LANDING OR DEPARTING NEW YORK SKYPORTS INC
SEAPLANE BASE) IN THE EAST RIVER CLASS B EXCLUSION AREA EXTENDING
FROM THE SOUTHWESTERN TIP OF GOVERNORS ISLAND TO THE NORTH TIP OF
ROOSEVELT ISLAND, ARE PROHIBITED UNLESS AUTHORIZED AND BEING
CONTROLLED BY ATC. TO OBTAIN AUTHORIZATION CONTACT LGA ATCT SOUTH OF
GOVERNORS ISLAND ON 126.05.

Also NYT:
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/nyre...rtner=homepage

In article ,
"Gary Drescher" wrote:

!FDC 6/3495 ZNY EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE, VFR
FLIGHT OPERATIONS INVOLVING FIXED WING AIRCRAFT (EXCLUDING AMPHIBIOUS
FIXED WING AIRCRAFT LANDING OR DEPARTING NEW YORK SKYPORTS INC
SEAPLANE BASE) IN THE EAST RIVER CLASS B EXCLUSION AREA EXTENDING
FROM THE SOUTHWESTERN TIP OF GOVERNORS ISLAND TO THE NORTH TIP OF
ROOSEVELT ISLAND, ARE PROHIBITED UNLESS AUTHORIZED AND BEING
CONTROLLED BY ATC. TO OBTAIN AUTHORIZATION CONTACT LGA ATCT SOUTH OF
GOVERNORS ISLAND ON 126.05.

Also NYT:
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/nyre...=1160798400&en
=7fbffc592fc3b815&ei=5094&partner=homepage

--Gary

yep - ATC will prevent stupid pilot tricks. yeah, that's the ticket. Just what
we need.

:-(

Are we going to have ATC tell us we can't fly because we'll exceed the
max demonstrated crosswind?

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

I also agree that it seems reasonable and makes sense considering the
difficulty of that airspace and the turn around.

Now if this type of solution could have been the focus of all the countless
blabbering media and politicians... But that would just make to much sense..




"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
. ..
!FDC 6/3495 ZNY EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE, VFR
FLIGHT OPERATIONS INVOLVING FIXED WING AIRCRAFT (EXCLUDING AMPHIBIOUS
FIXED WING AIRCRAFT LANDING OR DEPARTING NEW YORK SKYPORTS INC
SEAPLANE BASE) IN THE EAST RIVER CLASS B EXCLUSION AREA EXTENDING
FROM THE SOUTHWESTERN TIP OF GOVERNORS ISLAND TO THE NORTH TIP OF
ROOSEVELT ISLAND, ARE PROHIBITED UNLESS AUTHORIZED AND BEING
CONTROLLED BY ATC. TO OBTAIN AUTHORIZATION CONTACT LGA ATCT SOUTH OF
GOVERNORS ISLAND ON 126.05.

Also NYT:
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/nyre...rtner=homepage

--Gary

Bob,

With respect.. The reason this will help is that when flying up that part
of the river while talking to atc they will be able to clear you into the
class b and LGA's airspace with out getting stuck in the canyon and not
being in a position to make the narrow turn to try and stay out of the class
b.

"Bob Noel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Gary Drescher" wrote:

!FDC 6/3495 ZNY EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE, VFR
FLIGHT OPERATIONS INVOLVING FIXED WING AIRCRAFT (EXCLUDING AMPHIBIOUS
FIXED WING AIRCRAFT LANDING OR DEPARTING NEW YORK SKYPORTS INC
SEAPLANE BASE) IN THE EAST RIVER CLASS B EXCLUSION AREA EXTENDING
FROM THE SOUTHWESTERN TIP OF GOVERNORS ISLAND TO THE NORTH TIP OF
ROOSEVELT ISLAND, ARE PROHIBITED UNLESS AUTHORIZED AND BEING
CONTROLLED BY ATC. TO OBTAIN AUTHORIZATION CONTACT LGA ATCT SOUTH OF
GOVERNORS ISLAND ON 126.05.

Also NYT:
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/nyre...=1160798400&en
=7fbffc592fc3b815&ei=5094&partner=homepage

--Gary

yep - ATC will prevent stupid pilot tricks. yeah, that's the ticket.
Just what
we need.

:-(

Are we going to have ATC tell us we can't fly because we'll exceed the
max demonstrated crosswind?

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

In article , "me" wrote:

With respect.. The reason this will help is that when flying up that part
of the river while talking to atc they will be able to clear you into the
class b and LGA's airspace with out getting stuck in the canyon and not
being in a position to make the narrow turn to try and stay out of the class
b.

If that's the reason, then they should make a class b clearance a requirement
for fixed-wing aircraft operating in that corridor.

Bottomline: rules/regulations should say what they want. Regulation by
hoping and hinting almost always fails and have unintended adverse
side-effects.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

"Bob Noel" wrote in message
...
In article , "me" wrote:

With respect.. The reason this will help is that when flying up that
part
of the river while talking to atc they will be able to clear you into the
class b and LGA's airspace with out getting stuck in the canyon and not
being in a position to make the narrow turn to try and stay out of the
class
b.

If that's the reason, then they should make a class b clearance a
requirement
for fixed-wing aircraft operating in that corridor.

Perhaps exceptions can be made at the controller's discretion (for example,
in the case of a slower plane with a small turning radius).

Bottomline: rules/regulations should say what they want. Regulation by
hoping and hinting almost always fails and have unintended adverse
side-effects.

Why deny the controller some reasonable flexibility in this situation?

--Gary

In article ,
"Gary Drescher" wrote:

If that's the reason, then they should make a class b clearance a
requirement
for fixed-wing aircraft operating in that corridor.

Perhaps exceptions can be made at the controller's discretion (for example,
in the case of a slower plane with a small turning radius).

Why ATC? Why shouldn't the responsibility be on the PIC?

Bottomline: rules/regulations should say what they want. Regulation by
hoping and hinting almost always fails and have unintended adverse
side-effects.

Why deny the controller some reasonable flexibility in this situation?

I'm not. I'm questioning the reasoning behind the rule. I'm looking
for a logical justification for the rule and hoping that the rule it isn't
just a knee-jerk reaction.

And why deny the PIC his responsibility in this situation?

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

"Bob Noel" wrote in message
...

If that's the reason, then they should make a class b clearance a
requirement
for fixed-wing aircraft operating in that corridor.


Then what would be the purpose of the corridor?