For MXSMANIC: Flight Simulator Gear?

As long as we now have a certified MS Flight Simulator expert in-group,
with MXSMANIC, I may as well ask some sim advice...

Every Tuesday night we have "Movie Night" at the inn, where we show
free aviation movies in our theater. The theater has a 104" screen,
with a high-def projector hooked up to DVD/VHS -- and a PC.

Before (and, sometimes, after) the movie, we hold flight simulator
sessions, using both MS Flight Sim and X-Plane. This is a lot of fun
(that big screen is WAY cool for sim flying!), but the joystick
generates a significant number of "complaints" about how unrealistic
the controls are. And I agree.

Bottom line: Flying a Skylane with a joystick is just....wrong.

Sooooo...I've purchased the CH brand of yoke/throttles and rudder
pedals, all of which should be delivered early this week. These will
go a long ways toward making the flight experience a LOT more
realistic, but getting the controls into the correct ergonomic position
for users will be difficult in the theater, soooo:

See: http://www.avshop.com/prodinfo.asp?number=6531

I tested this unique rig at Oshkosh this year, and found it to be
PERFECT for the task, and I'm thinking about either purchasing one or
having my A&P weld up something similar. Before I go to this extreme,
however, (well, what *I* think is extreme) how do YOU "fly" your sim
set up? What, in your opinion, is the best cockpit set up for
"piloting" a sim?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

In a previous article, "Jay Honeck" said:
I tested this unique rig at Oshkosh this year, and found it to be
PERFECT for the task, and I'm thinking about either purchasing one or

I've used a couple of those sims, including some pretty **** hot gear in
the X-Plane booth, and some Elite set-ups, and I've never liked the way
the trim doesn't actually trim the elevator forces out. I end up flying
with the trim wheel all the time.


--
Paul Tomblin http://blog.xcski.com/
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary
Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" - Pennsylvania Assembly, 11Nov1755

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...
In a previous article, "Jay Honeck" said:
I tested this unique rig at Oshkosh this year, and found it to be
PERFECT for the task, and I'm thinking about either purchasing one or

I've used a couple of those sims, including some pretty **** hot gear in
the X-Plane booth, and some Elite set-ups, and I've never liked the way
the trim doesn't actually trim the elevator forces out. I end up flying
with the trim wheel all the time.

That's why I strongly prefer a force-feedback joystick over a non-FF yoke
for simulated flying. With the FF joystick, you *can* trim off the elevator
pressure.

But Jay could provide both and let his guests choose.

--Gary

Jay Honeck writes:

I tested this unique rig at Oshkosh this year, and found it to be
PERFECT for the task, and I'm thinking about either purchasing one or
having my A&P weld up something similar. Before I go to this extreme,
however, (well, what *I* think is extreme) how do YOU "fly" your sim
set up? What, in your opinion, is the best cockpit set up for
"piloting" a sim?

Well, I have to use the same computer for a lot of other things,
including work and school, so I'm limited in how much I can customize
the environment for flight. I just have a big LCD monitor and a
Saitek X52 joystick and throttle. After flying the keyboard alone for
years, this seems like a vast improvement to me, but it's nothing
compared to the kinds of kustom kockpits that people can set up if
they want to dedicate a machine to simulation. I might do that
someday, but not any time soon because I don't have the space (or
money or time).

My own attraction to simming is more intellectual than visceral, so I
do okay even if I don't have three monitors and a fancy yoke and so
on. I also believe that if the cockpit gets more elaborate, it has to
get more specific to a given aircraft, too. An elaborate, generic
cockpit effectively corresponds to nothing in real life, although it
might have a nice feel to it.

It sounds like your movie nights are fun, especially the sim sessions.
Who chooses to fly the sim?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Jay,

You have to checkout this video it is a flight sim video showing what
you can do if you upgrade your sim.
His sim has all the latest gadgets and upgrades that will give you the most
realistic look and feel.
He also has some suggestions on the YouTube.com site that will
help make your sim out of this world.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z89Hk...e=user&search=

Here is partial list of add-ons he uses:
-Ground Environment Pro
-Ultimate Terrain Europe
-Active Sky 6
-Mega Airport Frankfurt
-PMDG 737-800

David - KGYH


"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ups.com...
As long as we now have a certified MS Flight Simulator expert in-group,
with MXSMANIC, I may as well ask some sim advice...

Every Tuesday night we have "Movie Night" at the inn, where we show
free aviation movies in our theater. The theater has a 104" screen,
with a high-def projector hooked up to DVD/VHS -- and a PC.

Before (and, sometimes, after) the movie, we hold flight simulator
sessions, using both MS Flight Sim and X-Plane. This is a lot of fun
(that big screen is WAY cool for sim flying!), but the joystick
generates a significant number of "complaints" about how unrealistic
the controls are. And I agree.

Bottom line: Flying a Skylane with a joystick is just....wrong.

Sooooo...I've purchased the CH brand of yoke/throttles and rudder
pedals, all of which should be delivered early this week. These will
go a long ways toward making the flight experience a LOT more
realistic, but getting the controls into the correct ergonomic position
for users will be difficult in the theater, soooo:

See: http://www.avshop.com/prodinfo.asp?number=6531

I tested this unique rig at Oshkosh this year, and found it to be
PERFECT for the task, and I'm thinking about either purchasing one or
having my A&P weld up something similar. Before I go to this extreme,
however, (well, what *I* think is extreme) how do YOU "fly" your sim
set up? What, in your opinion, is the best cockpit set up for
"piloting" a sim?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:
Sooooo...I've purchased the CH brand of yoke/throttles and rudder
pedals, all of which should be delivered early this week.

You might set these up in the "standard" way (clamp the yoke to the edge
of a table, put the pedals on the floor) and see what the response is.
I suspect that it will be enough of an improvement over the joystick
that you won't _have_ to spring for the fancy jig for a while. On the
other hand, you may be optimizing for maximum shiny toys instead of for
minimum cost.

I tested this unique rig at Oshkosh this year, and found it to be
PERFECT for the task, and I'm thinking about either purchasing one or
having my A&P weld up something similar.

I really think living in Oklahoma is starting to rub off on me: my first
thought was that a junk four-door car body and a Sawzall might do the
job. (An old pickup cab is almost perfect, except that they usually
have bench seats which isn't quite what you want.) Remove the doors,
hood, and front fenders, and cut the front of the car off just forward
of the firewall. Cut the A-pillars at the base of the windshield and
the B-pillars just below the roof so you can fold the roof back, then
cut the B-pillars again just above the floor and get rid of them. Cut
the floor just aft of the front seat attachment points. You then have
an assembly consisting of the dash and (adjustable) front seats. Get
rid of the steering column if it wasn't gone already; there is usually
a good hardpoint a few inches forward of the steering wheel where the
column mounted to the dash - this is where you bolt down the yoke. Get
rid of the car pedals and bolt the sim pedals to the floor where they
were. If you don't like the "I'm sitting in a car" sight picture, get
a piece of 1/4" plywood and cut it into roughly a "D" shape (like the
panel of a 172/182), paint it black, and mount it just forward of the
yoke. Grind down sharp edges, paint, and add carpeting/trim to taste.

Getting a junk airplane fuselage would of course look even better, but
those are usually harder to come by, and probably more expensive, than
junk cars. You might talk to the local fire department; they might be
able to do some of the cutting for you under the disguise of rescue
training. If the city department isn't interested, try the local
volunteer departments - many of them don't get to do training like that
as often and they may be more willing to help.

You do realize this is just the beginning, right? If you have a custom
chair/mount for the yoke and pedals, the next question we'll see from
you will be along the lines of "How do you mount some real instruments
in the 'panel' and drive them from the computer?" After that it will
probably be something like "So I was down at Tractor Supply today and I
saw some hydraulic cylinders and I started thinking..." On the other
hand, if you do end up building a full sim, you can charge way more for
it than you charge for a room. As a bonus, there's no social stigma
associated with renting sim time by the hour.

Matt Roberds

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ups.com...
however, (well, what *I* think is extreme) how do YOU "fly" your sim
set up? What, in your opinion, is the best cockpit set up for
"piloting" a sim?

I used to fly MS sim years ago before I started pilot lessons. The last time
I flew a sim was during ground school in OKC, (the whole class) got a chance
to fly the FAA's 727(?) full-motion sim, now THAT was a sim! -- haven't
flown a sim since...

It'll depend on how much you want to invest... ;-)

-Greg B.

That's why I strongly prefer a force-feedback joystick over a non-FF yoke
for simulated flying. With the FF joystick, you *can* trim off the elevator
pressure.

But Jay could provide both and let his guests choose.

That's what we're using now. Joy sticks are great for flying combat
flight sims, but not very "real feeling" flying a spam can.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

It sounds like your movie nights are fun, especially the sim sessions.
Who chooses to fly the sim?

Usually everyone takes a turn at it, especially if the crowd is small.
We attract anywhere from 3 to 30 people on any given movie night, so we
never really know what to expect.

The older guys always choose to fly the Vickers, or the Spirit of St
Louis. The young guys always choose the 182, or the Caravan on floats.
It's really fun, and I'm thinking of adding a combat sim just for
variety.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ps.com...
That's why I strongly prefer a force-feedback joystick over a non-FF yoke
for simulated flying. With the FF joystick, you *can* trim off the
elevator
pressure.

But Jay could provide both and let his guests choose.

That's what we're using now. Joy sticks are great for flying combat
flight sims, but not very "real feeling" flying a spam can.

It's a matter of taste. For me, the important thing is for the sim to convey
information similar to the real thing (in this case, force feedback), even
if it's presented in a slightly different form factor (joystick instead of
yoke). (Consumer-priced force-feedback yokes are not available as far as I
know; and for me at least, the joystick would still be preferable because a
yoke pretty much takes over the computer area, so it's inconvenient unless
the computer is dedicated to simming.)

--Gary