VG's & Gap seals.. Pirep

Well.... We got them installed, testing now

Plane - PA28-151

Last year, I asked on Rec.aviation.piloting, what are the most helpful
mods for the Warrior.

Several people answered, and the most common answer was, - Mattison,
his VG's and gap seals...

LOTS of research followed, and Art's mods kept coming to the top.
So...after several conversations with him, we ordered them during our
paint job (to get the pattern for location so we could place the new
wing walk so it would not interfere)

We took some careful test measurements before the install, and some
results are in...

The last flight was a bit bumpy, subsequent tests will improve the
accuracy of the speeds...

So far...

We have at least 100 FPM increase in climb rate.

Stall speed, 40 Deg of flap, down at least 4 Knts,. we think more, but
at least this much.

Stall speed at 25deg flap, down at least 4 knts, possibly more..
Stall speed 0 flap, down by 4 knts....

These were the smallest changes noted of all the tests. A lot of
interpretation is needed reading the indicated speeds, and had to be
repeated many times. Most noted of the results was that the speeds we
noted in Knots before, we now have about the same numbers on the MPH
scale (approx)

I think, we may be able to increase these differences with some more
testing.

We did the "before" stalls at 3 K alt, at -7 C. The after test was
done at +6C, and we were unable to fly at the same density alt (
temperature difference) and safely do the stalls..so we had to get the
calculator out...

We will wait for some colder temps for another test. (my lawn is still
green here!) Would like to do the test again at the same pressure alt,
the results should be even better.

Our best "time to climb" showed a 150 fpm improvement, others in the
125 FPM range, so we are safe now claiming the 100fpm change.

The seals..

My flying partner Cory flew it first, and was so impressed he phoned
me while while I was OTW to the airport for the test flight!

Roll response is up by 20%or more.. Full deflection will instantly
stand the Warrior on its wing! (We also have the "Upswept" RMD tips
installed) The response to minor inputs is drastically improved, our
Warrior can now be flown with "pressures" like my friends RV6
(well...almost)

More later after some more tests.... - but we REALLY happy campers so
far!

Dave

It would depend on the Warrior, for the aileron gap seals.

If you remember, the early Warrior had "Frise" Ailerons. One would not want
to gap seal these beautiful little airfoils. But, alas, they were too
expensive to make and later, 1976 and on, I think, had just the standard
cheap stamped out aileron.

That is the main reason the early airplanes have such a nice roll feel and
the later are truck like.

Karl
"Curator" N185KG
2000 hrs instructing at Piper Learning Center


"Dave" wrote in message
...
Well.... We got them installed, testing now

Plane - PA28-151

Last year, I asked on Rec.aviation.piloting, what are the most helpful
mods for the Warrior.

Several people answered, and the most common answer was, - Mattison,
his VG's and gap seals...

LOTS of research followed, and Art's mods kept coming to the top.
So...after several conversations with him, we ordered them during our
paint job (to get the pattern for location so we could place the new
wing walk so it would not interfere)

We took some careful test measurements before the install, and some
results are in...

The last flight was a bit bumpy, subsequent tests will improve the
accuracy of the speeds...

So far...

We have at least 100 FPM increase in climb rate.

Stall speed, 40 Deg of flap, down at least 4 Knts,. we think more, but
at least this much.

Stall speed at 25deg flap, down at least 4 knts, possibly more..
Stall speed 0 flap, down by 4 knts....

These were the smallest changes noted of all the tests. A lot of
interpretation is needed reading the indicated speeds, and had to be
repeated many times. Most noted of the results was that the speeds we
noted in Knots before, we now have about the same numbers on the MPH
scale (approx)

I think, we may be able to increase these differences with some more
testing.

We did the "before" stalls at 3 K alt, at -7 C. The after test was
done at +6C, and we were unable to fly at the same density alt (
temperature difference) and safely do the stalls..so we had to get the
calculator out...

We will wait for some colder temps for another test. (my lawn is still
green here!) Would like to do the test again at the same pressure alt,
the results should be even better.

Our best "time to climb" showed a 150 fpm improvement, others in the
125 FPM range, so we are safe now claiming the 100fpm change.

The seals..

My flying partner Cory flew it first, and was so impressed he phoned
me while while I was OTW to the airport for the test flight!

Roll response is up by 20%or more.. Full deflection will instantly
stand the Warrior on its wing! (We also have the "Upswept" RMD tips
installed) The response to minor inputs is drastically improved, our
Warrior can now be flown with "pressures" like my friends RV6
(well...almost)

More later after some more tests.... - but we REALLY happy campers so
far!

Dave

Agreed!

Our Warrior is a 1979.. Regular hinges..

I have had RC models with "Frise" ailerons...a pain to build, but
wonderful control response...

Dave


On Mon, 25 Dec 2006 21:11:12 -0800, "karl gruber"
wrote:

It would depend on the Warrior, for the aileron gap seals.

If you remember, the early Warrior had "Frise" Ailerons. One would not want
to gap seal these beautiful little airfoils. But, alas, they were too
expensive to make and later, 1976 and on, I think, had just the standard
cheap stamped out aileron.

That is the main reason the early airplanes have such a nice roll feel and
the later are truck like.

Karl
"Curator" N185KG
2000 hrs instructing at Piper Learning Center


"Dave" wrote in message
.. .
Well.... We got them installed, testing now

Plane - PA28-151

Last year, I asked on Rec.aviation.piloting, what are the most helpful
mods for the Warrior.

Several people answered, and the most common answer was, - Mattison,
his VG's and gap seals...

LOTS of research followed, and Art's mods kept coming to the top.
So...after several conversations with him, we ordered them during our
paint job (to get the pattern for location so we could place the new
wing walk so it would not interfere)

We took some careful test measurements before the install, and some
results are in...

The last flight was a bit bumpy, subsequent tests will improve the
accuracy of the speeds...

So far...

We have at least 100 FPM increase in climb rate.

Stall speed, 40 Deg of flap, down at least 4 Knts,. we think more, but
at least this much.

Stall speed at 25deg flap, down at least 4 knts, possibly more..
Stall speed 0 flap, down by 4 knts....

These were the smallest changes noted of all the tests. A lot of
interpretation is needed reading the indicated speeds, and had to be
repeated many times. Most noted of the results was that the speeds we
noted in Knots before, we now have about the same numbers on the MPH
scale (approx)

I think, we may be able to increase these differences with some more
testing.

We did the "before" stalls at 3 K alt, at -7 C. The after test was
done at +6C, and we were unable to fly at the same density alt (
temperature difference) and safely do the stalls..so we had to get the
calculator out...

We will wait for some colder temps for another test. (my lawn is still
green here!) Would like to do the test again at the same pressure alt,
the results should be even better.

Our best "time to climb" showed a 150 fpm improvement, others in the
125 FPM range, so we are safe now claiming the 100fpm change.

The seals..

My flying partner Cory flew it first, and was so impressed he phoned
me while while I was OTW to the airport for the test flight!

Roll response is up by 20%or more.. Full deflection will instantly
stand the Warrior on its wing! (We also have the "Upswept" RMD tips
installed) The response to minor inputs is drastically improved, our
Warrior can now be flown with "pressures" like my friends RV6
(well...almost)

More later after some more tests.... - but we REALLY happy campers so
far!

Dave