Question - Regarding Canard Pushers...

Hi,

I'm new to this newsgroup. I have a couple of questions.

Sometime within the next 10 years (hopefully a bit sooner), I will begin a
homebuilt project. Myself and a couple of friends plan to go in on a project
together. Basically splitting the costs and the final product. 2 of us do
not yet have our pilots licence and one is currently a Canadian Forces
fighter pilot. We've only had casual conversation about this project so far.
I've decided to start laying the ground work for this long term project.

We all really like the idea of a canard pusher design. 4 seats are also
desired. Details after that have not been discussed. But one thing that
popped up was the control stick position. I've noticed, while surfing the
net looking at Velocity's and Cozy's, that the stick is a side mount. I
would prefer a center mount stick and I know my fighter friend would want
the center stick. Does anyone produce a kit, along these lines, with a
center mount stick? Are there any other choices out there for a 4 place
canard pusher?

I've found some rough figures on costs of Velocity pushers. What are some
potential final tallies for Cozy's?

Lastly, what are some recommendations, for homebuilt canard pushers, that
any experts here can give?

Thanks,
Lyle

On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 06:46:00 +0000, Tilt wrote:

We all really like the idea of a canard pusher design. 4 seats are also
desired. Details after that have not been discussed. But one thing that
popped up was the control stick position. I've noticed, while surfing
the net looking at Velocity's and Cozy's, that the stick is a side
mount. I would prefer a center mount stick and I know my fighter friend
would want the center stick.

You might want to wrangle a flight in a canard with a side stick before
you write off the concept. It does work reasonably well, at least on the
Gyroflug Speed Canard that I flew.

4 seat canards are not the sort of aircraft you do aerobatics in, so you
don't need the leverage that a long centre stick gives you.

--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/

Kevin

Note your Fighter Pilot's druthers.

With a side stick you can't fly with your knees while you do other
important things with ur hands.

Big John
Retired Fighter Pilot


On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 10:55:56 GMT, Kevin Horton
wrote:

On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 06:46:00 +0000, Tilt wrote:

We all really like the idea of a canard pusher design. 4 seats are also
desired. Details after that have not been discussed. But one thing that
popped up was the control stick position. I've noticed, while surfing
the net looking at Velocity's and Cozy's, that the stick is a side
mount. I would prefer a center mount stick and I know my fighter friend
would want the center stick.

You might want to wrangle a flight in a canard with a side stick before
you write off the concept. It does work reasonably well, at least on the
Gyroflug Speed Canard that I flew.

4 seat canards are not the sort of aircraft you do aerobatics in, so you
don't need the leverage that a long centre stick gives you.

Big John wrote in message . ..
Kevin
Note your Fighter Pilot's druthers.

With a side stick you can't fly with your knees while you do other
important things with ur hands.

Well, one could install a simple wing-leveler/GPS tracker
autopilot, not?

Depending upon the plane's mission, which might be
"goin' places" if 4 seats are a must, an AP can be
highly desireable.

Sydney, whose autopilot is in Georgia as we speak

In article , Big John
writes:


Kevin

Note your Fighter Pilot's druthers.

With a side stick you can't fly with your knees while you do other
important things with ur hands.

Big John
Retired Fighter Pilot



That's what Autopilots are for.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

RobertR237 wrote:
In article , Big John
writes:


Kevin

Note your Fighter Pilot's druthers.

With a side stick you can't fly with your knees while you do other
important things with ur hands.

Big John
Retired Fighter Pilot




That's what Autopilots are for.

! no thats what the girl friend is for....



Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)


Had to be said...

Dave (daves not here)

Bob

I never heard two knees defined as an auto pilot before.

If you keep loading a bird down (A/P, etc) the weight growth will
seriously effect the performance of bird.

Since most pilots come with two knees, you don't add any weight to be
able to fly the bird with the knees when required.

Big John


On 07 Aug 2003 22:24:28 GMT, osit (RobertR237)
wrote:

In article , Big John
writes:


Kevin

Note your Fighter Pilot's druthers.

With a side stick you can't fly with your knees while you do other
important things with ur hands.

Big John
Retired Fighter Pilot



That's what Autopilots are for.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 23:58:41 -0500, Big John
wrote:

Bob

I never heard two knees defined as an auto pilot before.

If you keep loading a bird down (A/P, etc) the weight growth will
seriously effect the performance of bird.

Since most pilots come with two knees, you don't add any weight to be
able to fly the bird with the knees when required.

Big John
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The 'knee trick' will get you at least....
three snap rolls, two loops and a split-S in my RV-3
before you can decide it was a less than brilliant idea. g


Barnyard BOb - teller of tall tales

On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 10:48:51 -0500, Big John wrote:

Kevin

Note your Fighter Pilot's druthers.

With a side stick you can't fly with your knees while you do other
important things with ur hands.

Big John
Retired Fighter Pilot


On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 10:55:56 GMT, Kevin Horton
wrote:

On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 06:46:00 +0000, Tilt wrote:

We all really like the idea of a canard pusher design. 4 seats are
also desired. Details after that have not been discussed. But one
thing that popped up was the control stick position. I've noticed,
while surfing the net looking at Velocity's and Cozy's, that the stick
is a side mount. I would prefer a center mount stick and I know my
fighter friend would want the center stick.

You might want to wrangle a flight in a canard with a side stick before
you write off the concept. It does work reasonably well, at least on
the Gyroflug Speed Canard that I flew.

4 seat canards are not the sort of aircraft you do aerobatics in, so you
don't need the leverage that a long centre stick gives you.

I got lots of hours holding sticks between my knees too. I would prefer a
centre stick too. But a properly built and rigged canard should be able
to keep right side up once you've got it trimmed, I would have thought.
So you should be able to release the stick for short periods if you really
need both hands.

I'm not aware of any four place canards with centre sticks. I suspect it
would be a very large job to cobble a centre stick onto one of the four
place canard designs. You would need quite a few bell cranks, etc, and
the number of pivots could lead to excessive friction, if you weren't real
careful with the design and construction.

--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/

I'm seeing this may be the case. We arn't getting real serious yet, but I
want to start researching this info now. My friends and I would certainly
prefer a stick between the knees. My fighter friend has flown this way since
the start of his flying career. I myself like that arrangment too. Maybe we
need to look at other homebuilt designs. We would like the craft to have
some light aerobatics abilities. Nothing real heavy...none of us wants to go
off and join the Air Show.

I did find a web site of a dude building an SQ-2000 canard pusher. His
cockpit was set up with 2 yokes. This leads me to think it wouldn't be hard
to set up a center (between the knees) stick.

Any SQ-2000 owners out there want to enlighten me?

Cheers,
Lyle


You might want to wrangle a flight in a canard with a side stick before
you write off the concept. It does work reasonably well, at least on
the Gyroflug Speed Canard that I flew.

4 seat canards are not the sort of aircraft you do aerobatics in, so you
don't need the leverage that a long centre stick gives you.

I got lots of hours holding sticks between my knees too. I would prefer a
centre stick too. But a properly built and rigged canard should be able
to keep right side up once you've got it trimmed, I would have thought.
So you should be able to release the stick for short periods if you really
need both hands.

I'm not aware of any four place canards with centre sticks. I suspect it
would be a very large job to cobble a centre stick onto one of the four
place canard designs. You would need quite a few bell cranks, etc, and
the number of pivots could lead to excessive friction, if you weren't real
careful with the design and construction.

--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/