Cambridge FR, Sector OZ, Badges

I understand the characteristics of the Sector OZ and the Cylinder OZ,
and for my badge flights, I would prefer to use the Sector OZ. An RAS
thread back in 2000 (before I started flying) seems to indicate that
Cambridge FRs are "hard wired" to the Cylinder OZ. I have a 302A CFR.
Does that mean I'm stuck with Cylinder OZ's, or can you "declare"
intent to use Sector OZs in some way when making badge flights?

TIA
Jim

There are a couple of threads on this topic...from
a few years ago. I went through them looking for the
same information you are. Unless something has changed
recently...you have to get into the sector...which
means flying past the cylinder. This technique was
described by a couple of different pilots in these
old threads. Googling should dig out these old posts.
Good luck.

wrote:
I understand the characteristics of the Sector OZ and the Cylinder OZ,
and for my badge flights, I would prefer to use the Sector OZ. An RAS
thread back in 2000 (before I started flying) seems to indicate that
Cambridge FRs are "hard wired" to the Cylinder OZ. I have a 302A CFR.
Does that mean I'm stuck with Cylinder OZ's, or can you "declare"
intent to use Sector OZs in some way when making badge flights?

Nothing is "hard wired" into the flight recorder itself. The
determination whether you were using cylinder or sector OZs occurs
during post-flight analysis of the IGC file. What can cause confusion
is that some flight recorders will provide a signal during flight
indicating that one has "arrived" or entered an OZ. The GPS-NAV display
provides this signal when one passes within a pre-determined distance of
the currently selected turnpoint, which is why some believe that
Cambridge flight recorders only support cylinders.

If you have moving map software that is driven by the 302A, just fly
through the displayed sector OZ, and you should be fine. In any case, a
little practice will help make sure that you don't manage to miss an OZ
on your big day...

Marc

On Jul 19, 11:01 am, wrote:
I understand the characteristics of the Sector OZ and the Cylinder OZ,
and for my badge flights, I would prefer to use the Sector OZ. An RAS
thread back in 2000 (before I started flying) seems to indicate that
Cambridge FRs are "hard wired" to the Cylinder OZ. I have a 302A CFR.
Does that mean I'm stuck with Cylinder OZ's, or can you "declare"
intent to use Sector OZs in some way when making badge flights?

TIA
Jim

My 302/303 will indicate sector entry when a task is active. I
believe it's a feature of the 303 only, but can't be sure. Although
based on the documentation for the 303, it is not compatible with the
302A. So you might be out of luck. You could contact the folks at
Cambridge to find out for sure.

Dave

On Jul 19, 10:01 am, wrote:
Cambridge FRs are "hard wired" to the Cylinder OZ. I have a 302A CFR.
Does that mean I'm stuck with Cylinder OZ's, or can you "declare"
intent to use Sector OZs in some way when making badge flights?

There is no need to declare the type of OZ to use. Just be sure that
all your TP approaches are of the same type.

Are you using a PDA to navigate from the data stream provided by the
302A? Then the PDA map will get you to the right place.

I don't recall whether the 302 can be set up to beep when within a
predefined distance to the TP (I have a 302, but use the PDA to
navigate, so never bothered to see if that was possible). If it can,
then you could use it to fly a cylinder OZ type task.

If you want to fly a sector OZ type task, then you must have at least
a display that provides bearing to the TP that will help you get to
the right place. If you have no display, then your TPs had better be
easily identifiable places, and you must be very sure you are in the
OZ before changing course.

If you are using a different source of GPS info, perhaps a handheld,
to navigate, then you must again be sure not to barely clip the OZ, as
the two GPS devices could be off by a few hundred feet. So even
though the handheld unit claims you were barely within the OZ, the IGC
FR may still be showing a position outside the OZ.

-Tom

wrote:
I understand the characteristics of the Sector OZ and the Cylinder OZ,
and for my badge flights, I would prefer to use the Sector OZ. An RAS
thread back in 2000 (before I started flying) seems to indicate that
Cambridge FRs are "hard wired" to the Cylinder OZ. I have a 302A CFR.
Does that mean I'm stuck with Cylinder OZ's, or can you "declare"
intent to use Sector OZs in some way when making badge flights?

TIA
Jim


Three different items here.

1. If the task you are flying requires you to fly sectors (per the
badge rules) then you better fly around the turnpoint in that manner.
If the rules allow cylinders, (I'm not sure if they do or don't) then
you can do it that way. Last time I flew a badge I think it was only
sectors, but that's been a few years, maybe it's changed.

2. The FR will record where you go no matter what you've declared. You
will want to make sure that your flight path will log the necessary
datapoints either inside the cylinder or passing through the sector.

3. As mentioned above, some of the PDA software or even hardware that
gives information during your flight can be programmed to beep if you
get close enough to a turnpoint. If you need to fly sectors, then the
beep will probably NOT guarantee that you have flown around the
turnpoint as required. Best to zoom in on your PDA and make sure your
track goes through the sector.

There is a lot to be said for trying to round each turnpoint so it can
later be counted as either a cylinder or sector turnpoint. It might
save your flight if you make a small error on one of the turnpoints or
finish. It did for my gold distance - and that was a tough flight
involving a near landout and ridge soaring for a while to get out of a
hole, so I really wanted it to count.

Darryl


On Jul 19, 9:24 am, Marc Ramsey wrote:
wrote:
I understand the characteristics of the Sector OZ and the Cylinder OZ,
and for my badge flights, I would prefer to use the Sector OZ. An RAS
thread back in 2000 (before I started flying) seems to indicate that
Cambridge FRs are "hard wired" to the Cylinder OZ. I have a 302A CFR.
Does that mean I'm stuck with Cylinder OZ's, or can you "declare"
intent to use Sector OZs in some way when making badge flights?

Nothing is "hard wired" into the flight recorder itself. The
determination whether you were using cylinder or sector OZs occurs
during post-flight analysis of the IGC file. What can cause confusion
is that some flight recorders will provide a signal during flight
indicating that one has "arrived" or entered an OZ. The GPS-NAV display
provides this signal when one passes within a pre-determined distance of
the currently selected turnpoint, which is why some believe that
Cambridge flight recorders only support cylinders.

If you have moving map software that is driven by the 302A, just fly
through the displayed sector OZ, and you should be fine. In any case, a
little practice will help make sure that you don't manage to miss an OZ
on your big day...

Marc

On Jul 19, 11:22 am, Stewart Kissel
wrote:

Unless something has changed
recently...you have to get into the sector...which
means flying past the cylinder.

Slight correction in wording might be in order. This may be totally
obvious.

A Cyclinder is centered over the turn point. The Sector is beyond the
turn point (from the direction of the previous turn point). So
"flying past the cyclinder" will work if you go all the way around the
cyclinder. However, you only need to get into the Sector, not all the
way around the cyclinder.

To define the Sector, draw a line from turnpoint A to turnpoint B.
Draw another line from turnpoint B to turnpoint C. Draw another line
from turnpoint C back to turnpoint A. Make sure to draw the lines so
that they extend past the turnpoint. The tails of the lines that are
beyond the turnpoints define the sector which basically goes on
forever as a ever expanding pie wedge.

When going for a distance badge (versus a contest) there is no sense
going too far into the Sector as the distance measure is only to the
turn point, not beyond. In contests the extra distance can count for
something (depends) but not in badge flying.

On Jul 19, 2:37 pm, 5Z wrote:
On Jul 19, 10:01 am, wrote:

Cambridge FRs are "hard wired" to the Cylinder OZ. I have a 302A CFR.
Does that mean I'm stuck with Cylinder OZ's, or can you "declare"
intent to use Sector OZs in some way when making badge flights?

There is no need to declare the type of OZ to use. Just be sure that
all your TP approaches are of the same type.

Are you using a PDA to navigate from the data stream provided by the
302A? Then the PDA map will get you to the right place.

I don't recall whether the 302 can be set up to beep when within a
predefined distance to the TP (I have a 302, but use the PDA to
navigate, so never bothered to see if that was possible). If it can,
then you could use it to fly a cylinder OZ type task.

If you want to fly a sector OZ type task, then you must have at least
a display that provides bearing to the TP that will help you get to
the right place. If you have no display, then your TPs had better be
easily identifiable places, and you must be very sure you are in the
OZ before changing course.

If you are using a different source of GPS info, perhaps a handheld,
to navigate, then you must again be sure not to barely clip the OZ, as
the two GPS devices could be off by a few hundred feet. So even
though the handheld unit claims you were barely within the OZ, the IGC
FR may still be showing a position outside the OZ.

-Tom

Okay,
What I THINK I'm getting here is that IF I flew into the Sector for
the Start, Finish, and any Turnpoints, then I'm okay. That works for
me. On the flight in question, I had ASSUMED that Sector OZ's were
the default. Accordingly, I didn't bother to fly directly over the
turnpoint, since by that time I had decided to go far beyond it, and
would consequently be spending a LOT of time (roughly an hour and a
half) in the Sector before heading back.

wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jul 19, 2:37 pm, 5Z wrote:
On Jul 19, 10:01 am, wrote:

Cambridge FRs are "hard wired" to the Cylinder OZ. I have a 302A CFR.
Does that mean I'm stuck with Cylinder OZ's, or can you "declare"
intent to use Sector OZs in some way when making badge flights?

There is no need to declare the type of OZ to use. Just be sure that
all your TP approaches are of the same type.

Are you using a PDA to navigate from the data stream provided by the
302A? Then the PDA map will get you to the right place.

I don't recall whether the 302 can be set up to beep when within a
predefined distance to the TP (I have a 302, but use the PDA to
navigate, so never bothered to see if that was possible). If it can,
then you could use it to fly a cylinder OZ type task.

If you want to fly a sector OZ type task, then you must have at least
a display that provides bearing to the TP that will help you get to
the right place. If you have no display, then your TPs had better be
easily identifiable places, and you must be very sure you are in the
OZ before changing course.

If you are using a different source of GPS info, perhaps a handheld,
to navigate, then you must again be sure not to barely clip the OZ, as
the two GPS devices could be off by a few hundred feet. So even
though the handheld unit claims you were barely within the OZ, the IGC
FR may still be showing a position outside the OZ.

-Tom

Okay,
What I THINK I'm getting here is that IF I flew into the Sector for
the Start, Finish, and any Turnpoints, then I'm okay. That works for
me. On the flight in question, I had ASSUMED that Sector OZ's were
the default. Accordingly, I didn't bother to fly directly over the
turnpoint, since by that time I had decided to go far beyond it, and
would consequently be spending a LOT of time (roughly an hour and a
half) in the Sector before heading back.



We can be more helpful if we know you are using a PDA with moving map
software, or not. Are you using a 303 as well? Are you navigating by map and
using the FR to document?

The 302 (and I assume the 302A) can be set up to beep when you are within
the approach radius. this radius can be set to zero. This is a cylinder OZ.
Your declaration does not differentiate between cylinder and sector OZ

For badges---you can use a cylinder of 0.5 Km but distance penalties may
apply. *For start and finish sectors, the leg is only 0.5 Km.* For turnpoint
sector OZ the leg is infinite. Start and Finish lines are 1 Km centered on
the start point. If you miss, you lose! Download and read the SC3 AL7 for
gliders from the FAI website---guaranteed cure for insomnia.

Good luck
Hartley "KF" Falbaum
USA