req: CFI job advice

Hey, all. I'm looking for a bit of wisdom here. Background is, I'm a
system administrator whose job just dissolved in a corporate buyout and,
after being promised that if I came over I'd keep my salary and title, I was
sleazed into a 30% paycut (given a single day to either sign it or hit the
road) and a new position that they've literally lie to interviewees to fill.
If you've seen Office Space, that's beyond the deal. To keep it short I'll
just say I'm done there as soon as I find another way to feed and insure my
family.

Yesterday at the FBO three miles from my house I overheard the manager and
chief instructor send a potential student across town, about 30 miles, to
Hillsboro because there's already a student waiting list due to an extreme
lack of instructors. The chief pilot said "It's going to be a hard winter
because we don't have -any- available instructors out here."

Their website has indicated for the last month that they're hiring CFIIs,
but they told me at this point they're hiring CFIs who intend to add the
second I. Basically, they're desperate (I did not identify myself as a
CFI-student.) Despite the 50% cut in pay, my internal ADF is pointing
right to their front door.

I have a $600/mo house payment, a one year old and a wife who will be out of
college (second degree, already getting lucrative job offers) in the spring.
We have enough money saved to get by until then, but before I approach them
for a full-time job (they claim instructors work 40-50 hour weeks) I'm
hoping to find out what questions I should ask them and if there's anything
I need to know. I finished my Commercial in June and I'm ready for the
FOI. My wife agrees that my current work situation cannot hold out until
she graduates.

Any advice or hazards I should beware of?

-chris
CP-ASEL-IA

On Aug 30, 11:40 am, "Gattman" wrote:
To keep it short I'll
just say I'm done there as soon as I find another way to feed and insure my
family.

Have you asked about the "insure" part? I think you'll find it's a
fair bit more than a 50% cut when all the fringe is figured in.

Austin

On Aug 30, 9:40 am, "Gattman" wrote:
Hey, all. I'm looking for a bit of wisdom here. Background is, I'm a
system administrator whose job just dissolved in a corporate buyout and,
after being promised that if I came over I'd keep my salary and title, I was
sleazed into a 30% paycut (given a single day to either sign it or hit the
road) and a new position that they've literally lie to interviewees to fill.
If you've seen Office Space, that's beyond the deal. To keep it short I'll
just say I'm done there as soon as I find another way to feed and insure my
family.

Yesterday at the FBO three miles from my house I overheard the manager and
chief instructor send a potential student across town, about 30 miles, to
Hillsboro because there's already a student waiting list due to an extreme
lack of instructors. The chief pilot said "It's going to be a hard winter
because we don't have -any- available instructors out here."

Their website has indicated for the last month that they're hiring CFIIs,
but they told me at this point they're hiring CFIs who intend to add the
second I. Basically, they're desperate (I did not identify myself as a
CFI-student.) Despite the 50% cut in pay, my internal ADF is pointing
right to their front door.

I have a $600/mo house payment, a one year old and a wife who will be out of
college (second degree, already getting lucrative job offers) in the spring.
We have enough money saved to get by until then, but before I approach them
for a full-time job (they claim instructors work 40-50 hour weeks) I'm
hoping to find out what questions I should ask them and if there's anything
I need to know. I finished my Commercial in June and I'm ready for the
FOI. My wife agrees that my current work situation cannot hold out until
she graduates.

Any advice or hazards I should beware of?

-chris
CP-ASEL-IA

There are two ways to instruct
1) Work at FBO, get lots of hours, make about $15/hr
2) Work for yourself, work between 0-10 hours per week and making $50/
hr. As you build a reputation you will get more hours but its rare for
an independant CFI to not have a second job.

-Robert, CFII

"AustinMN" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Aug 30, 11:40 am, "Gattman" wrote:
To keep it short I'll
just say I'm done there as soon as I find another way to feed and insure
my
family.

Have you asked about the "insure" part? I think you'll find it's a
fair bit more than a 50% cut when all the fringe is figured in.

Indeed I did. That's the prime consideration right now.

-c

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
ups.com...

There are two ways to instruct
1) Work at FBO, get lots of hours, make about $15/hr
2) Work for yourself, work between 0-10 hours per week and making $50/
hr. As you build a reputation you will get more hours but its rare for
an independant CFI to not have a second job.

Thank you for this advice! The current situation is that there's a
contract shop on the north side (where I fly now) and a full-time shop on
the south side. I would prefer to remain loyal to my own FBO, but it's hard
to "build a reputation" with zero CFI experience under my belt, so if I eked
along full time until summer and then went back to contracting I'd at least
have some experienced logged, maybe some references...

The company I'm at told me I'd need to take a 23% paycut so I said I needed
that in writing. It took them over a week to get it to me as such, but when
they did it was a 30% paycut along with a rider saying I wouldn't trash-talk
the company by name for six months after I quit, and I had to sign it on the
spot. Who knows what they'll do tomorrow.

By the way, having been in the internet/telecom industry since 1995, I can
tell you guys that another collapse is coming if the upstart companies don't
come up for air. It's like 1999-2000 all over again; sales is writing
checks the technology can't cash, selling products that are not yet
technically possible. Management takes credit for success but not
responsibility for failure. It's like the dot com bubble burst, but all the
people in the industry who weren't directly affected by it are now managers,
making the same bad decisions and creating a new bubble.

I went down with the first ship. Not doing it again.

-c

"Gattman" wrote in message
...

The company I'm at told me I'd need to take a 23% paycut so I said I
needed that in writing. It took them over a week to get it to me as such,
but when they did it was a 30% paycut along with a rider saying I wouldn't
trash-talk the company by name for six months after I quit, and I had to
sign it on the spot. Who knows what they'll do tomorrow.

So.... If you DO trash talk the company, what will they do? Give you back
yout 30%?

Seriously, good luck with your decision.

Some things to consider (I don't know the answers - just thinking out loud)

Does the 40 hour per week place offer benefits?

If you end up using COBRA for insurance, check with the place to see if it's
cheaper to go direct. I left EDS back in 1999, and went through them for
Blue Cross. They threw me off due to a paperwork glitch (The posted a
payment as a 'deposit' on my account, and posted everything else as late.)
It turned out it was cheaper for me to go direct with Blue Cross because my
family was young and healthy, where the EDS 'group' was not.

Do you need to sign a non-compete with anyone if you sign up?

Also, watch out for that baby. He'll be heading off to college before you
know it. That's when you'll learn that two can live a cheaply as one.

"El Maximo" wrote in message
...
"Gattman" wrote in message

Some things to consider (I don't know the answers - just thinking out
loud)

Does the 40 hour per week place offer benefits?

If you end up using COBRA for insurance, check with the place to see if
it's cheaper to go direct. I left EDS back in 1999, and went through them
for Blue Cross. They threw me off due to a paperwork glitch (The posted a
payment as a 'deposit' on my account, and posted everything else as late.)
It turned out it was cheaper for me to go direct with Blue Cross because
my family was young and healthy, where the EDS 'group' was not.

Do you need to sign a non-compete with anyone if you sign up?

Those were the exact sorts of tips I was looking for. Thanks!


-c

"Gattman" wrote in message
...


Those were the exact sorts of tips I was looking for. Thanks!

One more note. Go ask a few of the CFIs how many hours they REALLY get paid
for. Being the skeptic that I am, I wouldn't believe the owner who says that
the CFIs fly 40 hours per week. That means the planes are in for 100 hour
inspections every 2 and a half week.

What is a pay-hour? An hour that you are there, or an hour that's billed?

And take into account weather cycles. Will you have anything to produce $
if the weather turns to pot for several weeks?
Jim

"El Maximo" wrote in message
...
"Gattman" wrote in message
...


Those were the exact sorts of tips I was looking for. Thanks!

One more note. Go ask a few of the CFIs how many hours they REALLY get
paid
for. Being the skeptic that I am, I wouldn't believe the owner who says
that
the CFIs fly 40 hours per week. That means the planes are in for 100 hour
inspections every 2 and a half week.

What is a pay-hour? An hour that you are there, or an hour that's billed?

On Aug 30, 12:56 pm, "El Maximo" wrote:
"Gattman" wrote in message

...



Those were the exact sorts of tips I was looking for. Thanks!

One more note. Go ask a few of the CFIs how many hours they REALLY get paid
for. Being the skeptic that I am, I wouldn't believe the owner who says that
the CFIs fly 40 hours per week. That means the planes are in for 100 hour
inspections every 2 and a half week.

What is a pay-hour? An hour that you are there, or an hour that's billed?

I have never heard of an FBO paying CFIs for the hours you are there.
You get paid a percentage of the hours that are billed directly as
your hours. If you bill the customer for 1 hour of ground you get paid
for 1 hour, if you call it 1/2 hour since you were talking about
Hooters part of the time, you get paid 1/2 hour. A lot of CFIs are
afraid to charge for the hours (especially ground ) that they work.
BTW: Some FBOs are easier to work with than others. FBOs that don't
tightly run the show often have situations where the previous CFI is
1/2 hour late returning the plane so you lose a 1/2 hour of pay. Other
shops will dress you down if you bring the plane back 1/2 hour after
the time you booked it to be back.

-Robert, CFII