Wagons used for towing in Europe

Hi all,

Following up on the recent thread regarding the VW Jetta, I'm curious
to find out what other station wagons (not SUVs, not hatchbacks, but
proper wagons) folks are using in Europe. I'm currently using a 2002
VW Passat VR6 Wagon (Variant) with the 4motion drive train and it's
been wonderful as a tow vehicle. Unfortunately, as is typical of more
recent VW gas (petrol) powered vehicles, it seems to be falling apart
just as it hit 120,000 miles (complete replacement of cooling system
and sensors, all 6 coils shot, suspiciously loud valve noise
starting).

Current replacement candidates include:

- Another Passat wagon if VW starts importing the TDI for 2008
- Maybe the Jetta wagon instead
- BMW 325xi if I can find out whether there are tow hitches (BMW US
does not list towing capacity and none of the aftermarket hitch
manufacturers lists a hitch)
- Subara Legacy or Outback

My first preference is a Diesel for multiple reasons.
Unfortunately, there's a lull in the US while manufacturers come up to
speed on the new polution regs.

Any thoughts or alternatives for vehicles in this class appreciated.

Erik Mann

Erik:
Tried to reply to your e-mail address, didn't work.
The Outback is great. Have put 128000 miles on mine and it has towed
Nimbus 3 and AS-H26E no problemo here in the mountainous western
states. Last weekend measured 22MPG towing the 26 at 70 MPH with the A/
C on and up and down passes on I-15. More efficient if you remove
anything (trailer, mountains, A/C, speed). But isn't that what life's
all about?
....Glider, mountains, heat, speed...
Jim

I run a Saab 9-3 (turbo-charged gas engine, 2l / 195 hp) which does just
great in the Alps. Consumption is fully charged with trailer and A/C about
10.5 liters per 100km (I leave you the transformation to your funny units).
Very calm driving at 100 km/h with the engine running at 2000rpm. The same
car with a turbodiesel engine will eat about 2 liters less.
Don't know of the life time yet as the leasing gets renewed after 160,000km.
The Saab 900 I used to drive before the 9-3 had 350,000km on the clock when
I closed the door for the last time - and it just had passed the bi-annual
check with $150 on repair.

The limit I experience is that on steep slopes uphill, especially with wet
surface, it is difficult to get all the power onto the road with a front
wheel drive.

"Papa3" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi all,

Following up on the recent thread regarding the VW Jetta, I'm curious
to find out what other station wagons (not SUVs, not hatchbacks, but
proper wagons) folks are using in Europe. I'm currently using a 2002
VW Passat VR6 Wagon (Variant) with the 4motion drive train and it's
been wonderful as a tow vehicle. Unfortunately, as is typical of more
recent VW gas (petrol) powered vehicles, it seems to be falling apart
just as it hit 120,000 miles (complete replacement of cooling system
and sensors, all 6 coils shot, suspiciously loud valve noise
starting).

Current replacement candidates include:

- Another Passat wagon if VW starts importing the TDI for 2008
- Maybe the Jetta wagon instead
- BMW 325xi if I can find out whether there are tow hitches (BMW US
does not list towing capacity and none of the aftermarket hitch
manufacturers lists a hitch)
- Subara Legacy or Outback

My first preference is a Diesel for multiple reasons.
Unfortunately, there's a lull in the US while manufacturers come up to
speed on the new polution regs.

Any thoughts or alternatives for vehicles in this class appreciated.

Erik Mann

On Aug 24, 4:03 am, "Bert Willing" bw_no_spam_ple...@tango-
whisky.com wrote:
I run a Saab 9-3 (turbo-charged gas engine, 2l / 195 hp) which does just
great in the Alps. Consumption is fully charged with trailer and A/C about
10.5 liters per 100km (I leave you the transformation to your funny units).
Very calm driving at 100 km/h with the engine running at 2000rpm. The same
car with a turbodiesel engine will eat about 2 liters less.
Don't know of the life time yet as the leasing gets renewed after 160,000km.
The Saab 900 I used to drive before the 9-3 had 350,000km on the clock when
I closed the door for the last time - and it just had passed the bi-annual
check with $150 on repair.

The limit I experience is that on steep slopes uphill, especially with wet
surface, it is difficult to get all the power onto the road with a front
wheel drive.

"Papa3" wrote in message

oups.com...



Hi all,

Following up on the recent thread regarding the VW Jetta, I'm curious
to find out what other station wagons (not SUVs, not hatchbacks, but
proper wagons) folks are using in Europe. I'm currently using a 2002
VW Passat VR6 Wagon (Variant) with the 4motion drive train and it's
been wonderful as a tow vehicle. Unfortunately, as is typical of more
recent VW gas (petrol) powered vehicles, it seems to be falling apart
just as it hit 120,000 miles (complete replacement of cooling system
and sensors, all 6 coils shot, suspiciously loud valve noise
starting).

Current replacement candidates include:

- Another Passat wagon if VW starts importing the TDI for 2008
- Maybe the Jetta wagon instead
- BMW 325xi if I can find out whether there are tow hitches (BMW US
does not list towing capacity and none of the aftermarket hitch
manufacturers lists a hitch)
- Subara Legacy or Outback

My first preference is a Diesel for multiple reasons.
Unfortunately, there's a lull in the US while manufacturers come up to
speed on the new polution regs.

Any thoughts or alternatives for vehicles in this class appreciated.

Erik Mann- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

P3,

I went through the same process in 2004 looking at much the same set
of cars.

I have an 05 Subaru Outback wagon (US) I tow a cobra/27 with. This
has the 6cyl. engine and has no difficulty towing the rig with a 3000
pound rating.

Fuel mileage is pretty much as advertised. I've had only one minor
repair in 55k miles. I'm very satisfied with the car and would buy
another. My hope is FHI develops a diesel variant in the 08-09 time
frame.

Many of the European manufacturers do not warrant their vehicles for
towing, or have very low capacities, something I found quite strange
considering the number of tow hitches I saw on vehicles in the EU
while on business trips.

One of our club members, Q3, put a hitch on a Beemer 5 series. IIRC,
it was not trivial due to something about the wiring.

Chip F
KK jr

Forgot to mention that I tow a 1000kg twin axle. Maximum tow weight for my
car is 1600kg.

Most European car manufacturers (if not all, including BMW) do offer
factory-mounted hitches here in Europe.

"chipsoars" wrote in message
ps.com...
On Aug 24, 4:03 am, "Bert Willing" bw_no_spam_ple...@tango-
whisky.com wrote:
I run a Saab 9-3 (turbo-charged gas engine, 2l / 195 hp) which does just
great in the Alps. Consumption is fully charged with trailer and A/C
about
10.5 liters per 100km (I leave you the transformation to your funny
units).
Very calm driving at 100 km/h with the engine running at 2000rpm. The
same
car with a turbodiesel engine will eat about 2 liters less.
Don't know of the life time yet as the leasing gets renewed after
160,000km.
The Saab 900 I used to drive before the 9-3 had 350,000km on the clock
when
I closed the door for the last time - and it just had passed the
bi-annual
check with $150 on repair.

The limit I experience is that on steep slopes uphill, especially with
wet
surface, it is difficult to get all the power onto the road with a front
wheel drive.

"Papa3" wrote in message

oups.com...



Hi all,

Following up on the recent thread regarding the VW Jetta, I'm curious
to find out what other station wagons (not SUVs, not hatchbacks, but
proper wagons) folks are using in Europe. I'm currently using a 2002
VW Passat VR6 Wagon (Variant) with the 4motion drive train and it's
been wonderful as a tow vehicle. Unfortunately, as is typical of more
recent VW gas (petrol) powered vehicles, it seems to be falling apart
just as it hit 120,000 miles (complete replacement of cooling system
and sensors, all 6 coils shot, suspiciously loud valve noise
starting).

Current replacement candidates include:

- Another Passat wagon if VW starts importing the TDI for 2008
- Maybe the Jetta wagon instead
- BMW 325xi if I can find out whether there are tow hitches (BMW US
does not list towing capacity and none of the aftermarket hitch
manufacturers lists a hitch)
- Subara Legacy or Outback

My first preference is a Diesel for multiple reasons.
Unfortunately, there's a lull in the US while manufacturers come up to
speed on the new polution regs.

Any thoughts or alternatives for vehicles in this class appreciated.

Erik Mann- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

P3,

I went through the same process in 2004 looking at much the same set
of cars.

I have an 05 Subaru Outback wagon (US) I tow a cobra/27 with. This
has the 6cyl. engine and has no difficulty towing the rig with a 3000
pound rating.

Fuel mileage is pretty much as advertised. I've had only one minor
repair in 55k miles. I'm very satisfied with the car and would buy
another. My hope is FHI develops a diesel variant in the 08-09 time
frame.

Many of the European manufacturers do not warrant their vehicles for
towing, or have very low capacities, something I found quite strange
considering the number of tow hitches I saw on vehicles in the EU
while on business trips.

One of our club members, Q3, put a hitch on a Beemer 5 series. IIRC,
it was not trivial due to something about the wiring.

Chip F
KK jr

On Aug 24, 9:01 am, "Bert Willing" bw_no_spam_ple...@tango-
whisky.com wrote:
Forgot to mention that I tow a 1000kg twin axle. Maximum tow weight for my
car is 1600kg.

Most European car manufacturers (if not all, including BMW) do offer
factory-mounted hitches here in Europe.

"chipsoars" wrote in message

ps.com...



On Aug 24, 4:03 am, "Bert Willing" bw_no_spam_ple...@tango-
whisky.com wrote:
I run a Saab 9-3 (turbo-charged gas engine, 2l / 195 hp) which does just
great in the Alps. Consumption is fully charged with trailer and A/C
about
10.5 liters per 100km (I leave you the transformation to your funny
units).
Very calm driving at 100 km/h with the engine running at 2000rpm. The
same
car with a turbodiesel engine will eat about 2 liters less.
Don't know of the life time yet as the leasing gets renewed after
160,000km.
The Saab 900 I used to drive before the 9-3 had 350,000km on the clock
when
I closed the door for the last time - and it just had passed the
bi-annual
check with $150 on repair.

The limit I experience is that on steep slopes uphill, especially with
wet
surface, it is difficult to get all the power onto the road with a front
wheel drive.

"Papa3" wrote in message

groups.com...

Hi all,

Following up on the recent thread regarding the VW Jetta, I'm curious
to find out what other station wagons (not SUVs, not hatchbacks, but
proper wagons) folks are using in Europe. I'm currently using a 2002
VW Passat VR6 Wagon (Variant) with the 4motion drive train and it's
been wonderful as a tow vehicle. Unfortunately, as is typical of more
recent VW gas (petrol) powered vehicles, it seems to be falling apart
just as it hit 120,000 miles (complete replacement of cooling system
and sensors, all 6 coils shot, suspiciously loud valve noise
starting).

Current replacement candidates include:

- Another Passat wagon if VW starts importing the TDI for 2008
- Maybe the Jetta wagon instead
- BMW 325xi if I can find out whether there are tow hitches (BMW US
does not list towing capacity and none of the aftermarket hitch
manufacturers lists a hitch)
- Subara Legacy or Outback

My first preference is a Diesel for multiple reasons.
Unfortunately, there's a lull in the US while manufacturers come up to
speed on the new polution regs.

Any thoughts or alternatives for vehicles in this class appreciated.

Erik Mann- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

P3,

I went through the same process in 2004 looking at much the same set
of cars.

I have an 05 Subaru Outback wagon (US) I tow a cobra/27 with. This
has the 6cyl. engine and has no difficulty towing the rig with a 3000
pound rating.

Fuel mileage is pretty much as advertised. I've had only one minor
repair in 55k miles. I'm very satisfied with the car and would buy
another. My hope is FHI develops a diesel variant in the 08-09 time
frame.

Many of the European manufacturers do not warrant their vehicles for
towing, or have very low capacities, something I found quite strange
considering the number of tow hitches I saw on vehicles in the EU
while on business trips.

One of our club members, Q3, put a hitch on a Beemer 5 series. IIRC,
it was not trivial due to something about the wiring.

Chip F
KK jr- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Bert,

what I meant to say is that EU manufacturers may warrant for towing in
the EU, the warranty does not extend to the US. The C230 I used to
have specifically stated that towing voided the warranty, yet I saw
plenty of hitches on MB's across the pond. It doesn't seem to make a
great deal of sense.

Chip

On Aug 24, 9:01 am, "Bert Willing" bw_no_spam_ple...@tango-
whisky.com wrote:
Forgot to mention that I tow a 1000kg twin axle. Maximum tow weight for my
car is 1600kg.

Most European car manufacturers (if not all, including BMW) do offer
factory-mounted hitches here in Europe.



That's an interesting rub. I've had the same experience in
Germany. My cousin's BMW 325 wagon had the standard gooseneck
hitch. Talking to the US BMW reps results in a blank stare.

The problem I have is that several manufacturers threaten to void the
warranty if you tow with an unapproved vehicle here. On the one
hand, I'm not overly concerned with that. On the other, if you do
happen to get unlucky and get a lemon, you could be in for a real
hassle.

The Subaru has been in the lead in my short list, but I may wait and
see whether any of the TDI engines make it back for either the early
2008 or mid-season 2008 release.

Anyone specifically towing with the BMW 3 series wagon?

The UK magazine 'What Car' published a supplement magazine
on towcars a month or so ago. They tested 50 (non
US) vehicles in the full range of sizes from Golfs
up to Range Rovers. The 'clear winner' (their words)
overall was the VW Passat 2.0 TDI Sport 4motion wagon.

(kerbweight 1609kg, Max towing weight 2000kg, Max hitch
weight 85kg)

John Galloway

I am normally limited to the current Ford UK range of vehicles. Various satisfactory estate variants I have used for towing include a 2.0 L diesel Mondeo automatic estate, Focus 1.6 L diesel auto, and currently 2.0 L petrol automatic Focus estate. It happily towed my glider up the one in four hill at Sutton Bank, and I have similarly had no problems towing up Glenshee on the way to Aboyne.

Not sure how it would operate with a heavy two seater, though I did tow the Lak 12 with one of my Mondeo estates, but automatics give you a super extra low gear at low speed, because of the torque converter, which so far has never let me down.

Chris N.


__________________________________________________ _________
Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it
now.
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Erik,

If I were to replace the 2000 Accord V6 today, I would
go right to the current generation Toyota RAV4 and
probably get the four wheel drive version, but definitely
with V-6 engine and towing package.

V-6 power: 269 hp.
EPA mileage, 21 city, 28 highway. Heck, 28 is what
the 200 h.p. Honda gets! And it's only front wheel
drive.

On a cross country tow this past spring, a friend and
I towed the same route in our little own convoy. He
with his RAV4 and me with my Accord. I didn't check
his mileage, but since we tanked up at the same stations
at the start and at the end, I do know he used about
2 gallons less than me.

The RAV4 has a strong engine, available with 4 wheel
drive, and good mileage.

Now, in 08 or maybe 09, Honda will have their turbodiesel
available in America. What will they offer it in?
An Accord sedan? Accord wagon (which we don't have
right now), or maybe the CR-V? Only Honda knows.

One wagon you haven't mentioned: Mazda's Six. It's
a nice looking vehicle. Not as nice as the V-Dub,
but pretty close.

Let us know what you get and how it works out.

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA