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#1
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Our club in Indiana is looking for advice and / or experience in
converting Pawnee Tow planes to run on motor fuel. Any comments or advice would be gratefully accepted . |
#2
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I don't have the whole answer but I'm working on it. Here's what I do have.
Many Pawnees have been successfully using MOGAS for rmany years all around the world, but..... 1. The Lycoming O-540 235HP engine has an STC for MOGAS in several airframes. - (The engine, propeller and airframe have to be STC'd together as a unit.) 2. Some, but not all, Pawnee airframes with the Lyc O-540 have MOGAS STC's. - Pawnee D airframe doesn't. 3. No MOGAS STC allows use of fuel containing ethanol - it does bad things to aircraft fuel systems. Many, if not most, problems related to using MOGAS have been traced to ethanol in the fuel. 4. There is an increasing number of reports of MOGAS containing ethanol sold at airports for use in airplanes. 5. There is suspicion that ethanol is being added to gasoline earlier and earlier in the distribution channel so that even if you have a deal with the local petroleum distributor to deliver MOGAS without ethanol, he may still unknowingly do so. Best advice is to test each batch of fuel for ethanol before using it. 6. Many states or localities mandate special automobile fuel blends to fight air polution. STC's for MOGAS do not take this into account. So, while MOGAS can work fine in a particular Pawnee, the owner/operator has to assume the responsibility to insure that all fuel used meets the STC requirements. Bill Daniels wrote in message ... Our club in Indiana is looking for advice and / or experience in converting Pawnee Tow planes to run on motor fuel. Any comments or advice would be gratefully accepted . |
#3
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What equipment is needed, and how does one test for
the presence of ethanol? Should it not be possible to test the batch, or require that the dealer test it, before accepting it for delivery? At 20:18 20 January 2008, Bill Daniels wrote: I don't have the whole answer but I'm working on it. Here's what I do have. Many Pawnees have been successfully using MOGAS for rmany years all around the world, but..... 1. The Lycoming O-540 235HP engine has an STC for MOGAS in several airframes. - (The engine, propeller and airframe have to be STC'd together as a unit.) 2. Some, but not all, Pawnee airframes with the Lyc O-540 have MOGAS STC's. - Pawnee D airframe doesn't. 3. No MOGAS STC allows use of fuel containing ethanol - it does bad things to aircraft fuel systems. Many, if not most, problems related to using MOGAS have been traced to ethanol in the fuel. 4. There is an increasing number of reports of MOGAS containing ethanol sold at airports for use in airplanes. 5. There is suspicion that ethanol is being added to gasoline earlier and earlier in the distribution channel so that even if you have a deal with the local petroleum distributor to deliver MOGAS without ethanol, he may still unknowingly do so. Best advice is to test each batch of fuel for ethanol before using it. 6. Many states or localities mandate special automobile fuel blends to fight air polution. STC's for MOGAS do not take this into account. So, while MOGAS can work fine in a particular Pawnee, the owner/operator has to assume the responsibility to insure that all fuel used meets the STC requirements. Bill Daniels wrote in message .com... Our club in Indiana is looking for advice and / or experience in converting Pawnee Tow planes to run on motor fuel. Any comments or advice would be gratefully accepted . |
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Most excellent reply by Bill Daniels..
May I add that we recently upgraded our O-540 from 235HP to 250HP with an STC, the STC for the upgrade specifically prohibits use of auto fuel. There are two parts to the STC, one to upgrade the engine, the other to install that engine on the Pawnee airframe. BT "Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote in message ... I don't have the whole answer but I'm working on it. Here's what I do have. Many Pawnees have been successfully using MOGAS for rmany years all around the world, but..... 1. The Lycoming O-540 235HP engine has an STC for MOGAS in several airframes. - (The engine, propeller and airframe have to be STC'd together as a unit.) 2. Some, but not all, Pawnee airframes with the Lyc O-540 have MOGAS STC's. - Pawnee D airframe doesn't. 3. No MOGAS STC allows use of fuel containing ethanol - it does bad things to aircraft fuel systems. Many, if not most, problems related to using MOGAS have been traced to ethanol in the fuel. 4. There is an increasing number of reports of MOGAS containing ethanol sold at airports for use in airplanes. 5. There is suspicion that ethanol is being added to gasoline earlier and earlier in the distribution channel so that even if you have a deal with the local petroleum distributor to deliver MOGAS without ethanol, he may still unknowingly do so. Best advice is to test each batch of fuel for ethanol before using it. 6. Many states or localities mandate special automobile fuel blends to fight air polution. STC's for MOGAS do not take this into account. So, while MOGAS can work fine in a particular Pawnee, the owner/operator has to assume the responsibility to insure that all fuel used meets the STC requirements. Bill Daniels wrote in message ... Our club in Indiana is looking for advice and / or experience in converting Pawnee Tow planes to run on motor fuel. Any comments or advice would be gratefully accepted . |
#5
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On Jan 20, 4:06 pm, Nyal Williams
wrote: What equipment is needed, and how does one test for the presence of ethanol? Should it not be possible to test the batch, or require that the dealer test it, before accepting it for delivery? At 20:18 20 January 2008, Bill Daniels wrote: I don't have the whole answer but I'm working on it. Here's what I do have. Many Pawnees have been successfully using MOGAS for rmany years all around the world, but..... 1. The Lycoming O-540 235HP engine has an STC for MOGAS in several airframes. - (The engine, propeller and airframe have to be STC'd together as a unit.) 2. Some, but not all, Pawnee airframes with the Lyc O-540 have MOGAS STC's. - Pawnee D airframe doesn't. 3. No MOGAS STC allows use of fuel containing ethanol - it does bad things to aircraft fuel systems. Many, if not most, problems related to using MOGAS have been traced to ethanol in the fuel. 4. There is an increasing number of reports of MOGAS containing ethanol sold at airports for use in airplanes. 5. There is suspicion that ethanol is being added to gasoline earlier and earlier in the distribution channel so that even if you have a deal with the local petroleum distributor to deliver MOGAS without ethanol, he may still unknowingly do so. Best advice is to test each batch of fuel for ethanol before using it. 6. Many states or localities mandate special automobile fuel blends to fight air polution. STC's for MOGAS do not take this into account. So, while MOGAS can work fine in a particular Pawnee, the owner/operator has to assume the responsibility to insure that all fuel used meets the STC requirements. Bill Daniels wrote in message .com... Our club in Indiana is looking for advice and / or experience in converting Pawnee Tow planes to run on motor fuel. Any comments or advice would be gratefully accepted . http://autofuelstc.com/autofuelstc/pa/ethanoltest.html |
#6
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It's actually even more complicated.
Many Pawnees have 4-blade Hoffmann props to reduce noise which is not included in a MOGAS STC's. Others have props which have been 're-pitched' for prevailing density altitudes at particular gliderports which negate the MOGAS STC. I suspect some operators are in violation of their STC's an hoping inspectors will look the other way. It's also later than we think. I have what I believe to be reliable information from within a US government agancy that the leaded AVGAS exemption will soon be vacated - or at least an NPRM to that effect will be published. The end of 100LL may soon be upon us. Bill Daniels "Nyal Williams" wrote in message ... What equipment is needed, and how does one test for the presence of ethanol? Should it not be possible to test the batch, or require that the dealer test it, before accepting it for delivery? At 20:18 20 January 2008, Bill Daniels wrote: I don't have the whole answer but I'm working on it. Here's what I do have. Many Pawnees have been successfully using MOGAS for rmany years all around the world, but..... 1. The Lycoming O-540 235HP engine has an STC for MOGAS in several airframes. - (The engine, propeller and airframe have to be STC'd together as a unit.) 2. Some, but not all, Pawnee airframes with the Lyc O-540 have MOGAS STC's. - Pawnee D airframe doesn't. 3. No MOGAS STC allows use of fuel containing ethanol - it does bad things to aircraft fuel systems. Many, if not most, problems related to using MOGAS have been traced to ethanol in the fuel. 4. There is an increasing number of reports of MOGAS containing ethanol sold at airports for use in airplanes. 5. There is suspicion that ethanol is being added to gasoline earlier and earlier in the distribution channel so that even if you have a deal with the local petroleum distributor to deliver MOGAS without ethanol, he may still unknowingly do so. Best advice is to test each batch of fuel for ethanol before using it. 6. Many states or localities mandate special automobile fuel blends to fight air polution. STC's for MOGAS do not take this into account. So, while MOGAS can work fine in a particular Pawnee, the owner/operator has to assume the responsibility to insure that all fuel used meets the STC requirements. Bill Daniels wrote in message .com... Our club in Indiana is looking for advice and / or experience in converting Pawnee Tow planes to run on motor fuel. Any comments or advice would be gratefully accepted . |
#7
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I remembered reading about this a couple of months ago from AOPA and a
little digging around found this........... Bob Testing fuel for ethanol The following test can be performed to determine the presence of ethanol in gasoline. On a test tube or olive bottle, make a permanent line about two inches from the bottom. Fill with water to this line, then fill the tube to the top with gasoline. Cover the tube, agitate it then let it stand. Ethanol mixes with water and the two will separate out together. Therefore, after mixing the water and the gasoline, if the water level appears to have increased, then the fuel contains ethanol and should not be used. Ethanol fuels can damage the rubber and aluminum components of your aircraft fuel system. Ethanol increases the volatility of fuel, and hence the possibility of vapor lock also increases. Ethanol may vent off at altitude, reducing both range and octane. For these reasons fuel containing ethanol must never be used in airplanes. We offer a ready made ethanol tester for $15.00. On Jan 20, 6:06*pm, Nyal Williams wrote: What equipment is needed, and how does one test for the presence of ethanol? Should it not be possible to test the batch, or require that the dealer test it, before accepting it for delivery? At 20:18 20 January 2008, Bill Daniels wrote: I don't have the whole answer but I'm working on it. Here's what I do have. Many Pawnees have been successfully using MOGAS for rmany years all around the world, but..... 1. The Lycoming O-540 235HP engine has an STC for MOGAS in several airframes. * *- (The engine, propeller and airframe have to be STC'd together as a unit.) 2. Some, but not all, Pawnee airframes with the Lyc O-540 have MOGAS STC's. * *- Pawnee D airframe doesn't. 3. No MOGAS STC allows use of fuel containing ethanol - it does bad things to aircraft fuel systems. *Many, if not most, problems related to using MOGAS have been traced to ethanol in the fuel. 4. There is an increasing number of reports of MOGAS containing ethanol sold at airports for use in airplanes. 5. There is suspicion that ethanol is being added to gasoline earlier and earlier in the distribution channel so that even if you have a deal with the local petroleum distributor to deliver MOGAS without ethanol, he may still unknowingly do so. *Best advice is to test each batch of fuel for ethanol before using it. 6. Many states or localities mandate special automobile fuel blends to fight air polution. *STC's for MOGAS do not take this into account. So, while MOGAS can work fine in a particular Pawnee, the owner/operator has to assume the responsibility to insure that all fuel used meets the STC requirements. Bill Daniels wrote in message .com... Our club in Indiana is looking for advice and / or experience in converting Pawnee Tow planes to run on motor fuel. Any comments or advice would be gratefully accepted .- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - |
#8
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On Jan 21, 11:38*am, Bob wrote:
I remembered reading about this a couple of months ago from AOPA and a little digging around found this........... Bob Testing fuel for ethanol The following test can be performed to determine the presence of ethanol in gasoline. On a test tube or olive bottle, make a permanent line about two inches from the bottom. Fill with water to this line, then fill the tube to the top with gasoline. Cover the tube, agitate it then let it stand. Ethanol mixes with water and the two will separate out together. Therefore, after mixing the water and the gasoline, if the water level appears to have increased, then the fuel contains ethanol and should not be used. Ethanol fuels can damage the rubber and aluminum components of your aircraft fuel system. Ethanol increases the volatility of fuel, and hence the possibility of vapor lock also increases. Ethanol may vent off at altitude, reducing both range and octane. For these reasons fuel containing ethanol must never be used in airplanes. We offer a ready made ethanol tester for $15.00. On Jan 20, 6:06*pm, Nyal Williams wrote: What equipment is needed, and how does one test for the presence of ethanol? Should it not be possible to test the batch, or require that the dealer test it, before accepting it for delivery? At 20:18 20 January 2008, Bill Daniels wrote: I don't have the whole answer but I'm working on it. Here's what I do have. Many Pawnees have been successfully using MOGAS for rmany years all around the world, but..... 1. The Lycoming O-540 235HP engine has an STC for MOGAS in several airframes. * *- (The engine, propeller and airframe have to be STC'd together as a unit.) 2. Some, but not all, Pawnee airframes with the Lyc O-540 have MOGAS STC's. * *- Pawnee D airframe doesn't. 3. No MOGAS STC allows use of fuel containing ethanol - it does bad things to aircraft fuel systems. *Many, if not most, problems related to using MOGAS have been traced to ethanol in the fuel. 4. There is an increasing number of reports of MOGAS containing ethanol sold at airports for use in airplanes. 5. There is suspicion that ethanol is being added to gasoline earlier and earlier in the distribution channel so that even if you have a deal with the local petroleum distributor to deliver MOGAS without ethanol, he may still unknowingly do so. *Best advice is to test each batch of fuel for ethanol before using it. 6. Many states or localities mandate special automobile fuel blends to fight air polution. *STC's for MOGAS do not take this into account. So, while MOGAS can work fine in a particular Pawnee, the owner/operator has to assume the responsibility to insure that all fuel used meets the STC requirements. Bill Daniels wrote in message .com... Our club in Indiana is looking for advice and / or experience in converting Pawnee Tow planes to run on motor fuel. Any comments or advice would be gratefully accepted .- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I have used a cleaned out gatorade or other soft drink bottle many times for testing ethanol. piece of cake. no need to spend 15 bucks for a 'tester' |
#9
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"Nyal Williams" wrote in message
... What equipment is needed, and how does one test for the presence of ethanol? Some people claim that 1/4 of an Alka Selzer in the bottom of a coffee cup works well - no fizz, no alcohol (or water) It's come up, like, a million times over on R.A.Piloting -- Geoff The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate. |
#10
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![]() wrote in message ... I have used a cleaned out gatorade or other soft drink bottle many times for testing ethanol. piece of cake. no need to spend 15 bucks for a 'tester' That's work, however a narrower container, like a test tube, uses less fluid to do the test. bumper |
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