are wooden gliders worthwhile building ?

serious question.
in this day and age where the slippery glass reigns supreme are there
any wooden gliders actually worth building ?

if your son was on the way to a glider instructors rating, as mine is,
is there a wooden glider design that would be worth building ?
something with reasonable performance that would be a sheer pleasure
to fly.

something a dad could spring on the kid.

Stealth Pilot

The problem with wood is that it changes shape with changes in humidity.
It's also heavier than composites or metal construction. But, one has to
admit, some very nice gliders have been built using wood.

There's one wood homebuilt that I've always admired - the Briglieb BG-12.
It's a very simple to build - well within the capabilities of the average
homebuilder. Almost all of them easily achieved 34:1. The 3-part wing was
a beast to assemble but the 2-part wing should be easy enough to rig with
some assembly aids.

I would also consider the Marske Pioneer II D. Although the wing is wood,
the rest is composite. It's a nice safe glider with reasonable performance.

Finally, don't build a glider just to own a glider - do it because you want
to build something and learn from the process. If you just want to own a
glider using some sweat equity, buy a first or second generation fiberglass
glider that needs refinishing. There can be some real value added in a good
refinish job.

Bill D


"Stealth Pilot" wrote in message
...

serious question.
in this day and age where the slippery glass reigns supreme are there
any wooden gliders actually worth building ?

if your son was on the way to a glider instructors rating, as mine is,
is there a wooden glider design that would be worth building ?
something with reasonable performance that would be a sheer pleasure
to fly.

something a dad could spring on the kid.

Stealth Pilot

On Feb 4, 6:16*am, Stealth Pilot
wrote:
serious question.
in this day and age where the slippery glass reigns supreme are there
any wooden gliders actually worth building ?

if your son was on the way to a glider instructors rating, as mine is,
is there a wooden glider design that would be worth building ?
something with reasonable performance that would be a sheer pleasure
to fly.

something a dad could spring on the kid.

Stealth Pilot

This fellow thinks so!
http://members.aol.com/woodglider/mattart1.htm

http://web.media.mit.edu/~tim/pix/oshkosh03_3/0896.jpg

/Adam

On Feb 4, 6:16*am, Stealth Pilot
wrote:
serious question.
in this day and age where the slippery glass reigns supreme are there
any wooden gliders actually worth building ?

if your son was on the way to a glider instructors rating, as mine is,
is there a wooden glider design that would be worth building ?
something with reasonable performance that would be a sheer pleasure
to fly.

something a dad could spring on the kid.

Stealth Pilot

In one word, no. If he wants to fly, and advance in the world of
soaring, get him a good club-class eligible fiberglass glider with a
well-engineered safety cockpit. I love the grandeur and history of
wooden gliders, I admire the courage and achievements of their pilots,
and I admire the skills of their homebuilders, but I would never send
my son up in something that turns to splinters if he has a rough
landing. Would you home-build him a wooden car?

If he wants to build, and to learn the skills thereof, send him to a
good repair shop or off to one of the German factories to learn modern
composite construction and repair technique.

If you want a project, for you to have fun building for several years
and then float around the airport on a Sunday afternoon....well,
that's a different story. Have fun! If not a homebuilt, consider
restoring an antique.

John Cochrane

Better link he

http://members.aol.com/woodglider/matt.htm

/Adam

Well put.

Bert

"BB" wrote in message
news:030e63d9-44dd-45c2-b215-
In one word, no. If he wants to fly, and advance in the world of
soaring, get him a good club-class eligible fiberglass glider with a
well-engineered safety cockpit. I love the grandeur and history of
wooden gliders, I admire the courage and achievements of their pilots,
and I admire the skills of their homebuilders, but I would never send
my son up in something that turns to splinters if he has a rough
landing. Would you home-build him a wooden car?

If he wants to build, and to learn the skills thereof, send him to a
good repair shop or off to one of the German factories to learn modern
composite construction and repair technique.

If you want a project, for you to have fun building for several years
and then float around the airport on a Sunday afternoon....well,
that's a different story. Have fun! If not a homebuilt, consider
restoring an antique.

John Cochrane

http://web.media.mit.edu/~tim/pix/oshkosh03_3/0896.jpg

/Adam


Well thats cool. I never saw that photo and that's my glider! Cam
Martin brought me to Oshkosh to display and talk about the Woodstock.

To the original poster, the Woodstock is a very fine ship. Of all the
wood homebuilts it might not be the best performing in terms of L/D
but it is very well designed. I think that a lot that was learned
from the Cherokees, BGs, Terns, Dusters, that came before was applied
to the Woodstock. When Bob Wander wanted to build a wood glider he
chose the Woodstock after a lengthy study. The credientials of the
designers are impeccable. The performance may not be impressive on
paper but in the sky it never ceases to amaze me and anyone else
flying nearby. L/D isn't everything. Yes, it's very lightweight but
it has a fast wing and is very rugged. It will do much more than
simply float around the airport.

The Cherokee is also a neat machine. If you can find one that needs
rebuilding it's a very worthwhile project. Reference our own Cherokee
Kid, Tony Condon's many posts here (and at www.knighglider.com) about
the fun he's having with his. The Cherokee has unique but not
dangerous stall characteristics. Emphasis on training.

The BGs do perform well as Bill said but the flap-only aspect somewhat
complicates landings. Again, emphasis on training.

Cam Martin has had his Duster on the market and from what I gather
it's a great machine. He lets his son fly it.

The Miller Tern has tiny airbrakes which reportedly make approaches
challenging.

Other old wood would include the K6s and K8s (the 8 has steel tube
fuselage) Folka and Cobra, Austrias, Slingsbys... I know of a very
nice K6 looking for a home.

Whats great about the old wood is that you can get it cheap, it's
satisfying to restore, and they are fun to fly. The whole experiece
is living history. The downside is as Bill mentioned, crashworthyness
wasn't part of the design philosophy, and some of the homebuilts have
quirky characteristics. But if you find a good one, personally verify
the airworthyness and the training of whoever is going to fly it you
get some great soaring experiences for very little money.

Matt Michael
Ames Iowa

If you want to build a glider, sure. There is the BG-12B, BG-12/16
(same wing, diff. fuselage), Woodstock, and maybe the Duster (I don't
know if plans are still available for the Duster). Possibly others.

Having owned a BG-12B (2 piece wing), and own a Slingsby T-31, if
properly cared for there is nothing wrong with wooden gliders. Of
course that could be said about any glider made from any material.
Yet I did not build any of my gliders, I bought them many years
later. The trouble with homebuilding is that unless you have real
determination, it typically takes 6-8 years.

As to weight, the 50 ft span BG-12 (and 12/16) is heavy because it is
braced for 12 Gs and uses a solid wood spar. On mine, I estimated the
wings to weigh over 200 lbs each. The fuselage, on the other hand,
was light enough that with some effort, it could be picked-up by one
person. The glider weighed about 645 lbs total. This is not
necessarily true of other wooden gliders because the then high-
performance, all-wood 1934 Bowlus-duPont Albatross had a 62 ft wing
yet the whole shootin' match weighed less than 400 lbs!

Now, having said all of that, you will not get a wooden glider of any
current design to equal the performance of a fiberglass ship. The
BG-12 was one of the highest performance wooden gliders ever designed,
and mine was measured by Paul Bikle to be 31:1 (Briegleb claimed
35:1). Also, experience needs to be considered, my BG-12 was my first
glider but it may not be a great choice for beginners because it is
flapped and flaps tend to scare some people (I love flaps).

I would say that if you and/or your son want to build a glider,
building a wooden one is a good choice. Personally I love flying
wood. I think it was Gren Siebels who lamented when he bought his
first fiberglass glider that he missed the smells of his old wooden
one. Still, if your son only wants to fly (not build), and
specifically wants to fly wood, buy him an existing glider. The
BG-12, Woodstock, Duster, Austria, and Ka-6 are all excellent choices--
but the BG, Austria, and K-6 may not be good choices for beginners.

Otherwise, get him a Schweizer 1-26 to start with. An excellent first
glider!


On Feb 4, 4:16*am, Stealth Pilot
wrote:
serious question.
in this day and age where the slippery glass reigns supreme are there
any wooden gliders actually worth building ?

if your son was on the way to a glider instructors rating, as mine is,
is there a wooden glider design that would be worth building ?
something with reasonable performance that would be a sheer pleasure
to fly.

something a dad could spring on the kid.

Stealth Pilot

At least one BG-12 was built with two piece wing and spoilers (D model?).

Keep in mind that people who own gliders equipped with flaps for glide path
control like them and those who don't have little experience in them . It's
an urban myth that gliders with flaps are hard to land. The issue is that
there are no training gliders with flaps - you have to teach yourself in a
single seat glider or take a few lessons in a C-150.

Bill D


"raulb" wrote in message
...
If you want to build a glider, sure. There is the BG-12B, BG-12/16
(same wing, diff. fuselage), Woodstock, and maybe the Duster (I don't
know if plans are still available for the Duster). Possibly others.

Having owned a BG-12B (2 piece wing), and own a Slingsby T-31, if
properly cared for there is nothing wrong with wooden gliders. Of
course that could be said about any glider made from any material.
Yet I did not build any of my gliders, I bought them many years
later. The trouble with homebuilding is that unless you have real
determination, it typically takes 6-8 years.

As to weight, the 50 ft span BG-12 (and 12/16) is heavy because it is
braced for 12 Gs and uses a solid wood spar. On mine, I estimated the
wings to weigh over 200 lbs each. The fuselage, on the other hand,
was light enough that with some effort, it could be picked-up by one
person. The glider weighed about 645 lbs total. This is not
necessarily true of other wooden gliders because the then high-
performance, all-wood 1934 Bowlus-duPont Albatross had a 62 ft wing
yet the whole shootin' match weighed less than 400 lbs!

Now, having said all of that, you will not get a wooden glider of any
current design to equal the performance of a fiberglass ship. The
BG-12 was one of the highest performance wooden gliders ever designed,
and mine was measured by Paul Bikle to be 31:1 (Briegleb claimed
35:1). Also, experience needs to be considered, my BG-12 was my first
glider but it may not be a great choice for beginners because it is
flapped and flaps tend to scare some people (I love flaps).

I would say that if you and/or your son want to build a glider,
building a wooden one is a good choice. Personally I love flying
wood. I think it was Gren Siebels who lamented when he bought his
first fiberglass glider that he missed the smells of his old wooden
one. Still, if your son only wants to fly (not build), and
specifically wants to fly wood, buy him an existing glider. The
BG-12, Woodstock, Duster, Austria, and Ka-6 are all excellent choices--
but the BG, Austria, and K-6 may not be good choices for beginners.

Otherwise, get him a Schweizer 1-26 to start with. An excellent first
glider!


On Feb 4, 4:16 am, Stealth Pilot
wrote:
serious question.
in this day and age where the slippery glass reigns supreme are there
any wooden gliders actually worth building ?

if your son was on the way to a glider instructors rating, as mine is,
is there a wooden glider design that would be worth building ?
something with reasonable performance that would be a sheer pleasure
to fly.

something a dad could spring on the kid.

Stealth Pilot

something a dad could spring on the kid.

Stealth Pilot

Get him ( or her ) a 1st generation club class glass ship. It will
hold its value and provide a stepping stone into a hot ship if thats
theway he or she wants to go in the future.