Pinckneyville Pix

"Morgans" wrote in message ...
"Badwater Bill" wrote

Then you have a guy like Pac who is a DC-10 captain


BULL****

You know it is, too.


No Morgan, BWB's right. You're pretty clueless up there in your
hillbilly log cabin. Bill knows I'll buy him a beer some time and
show him my licences. Or take him down and preflight a ten sometime.
But unlike you, he is experienced with jet equipment and recognizes a
fellow jet operator. You simply don't have any experience in anything
to be able to spot a jet operator. Do you know what a pt2 and pt7
sensor is? Ever heard of EPR? Do you know what a PDU or an ACM is?
How about ECAM or GPWS? Three of these are not on DC-10's. Which
ones Morgan?

How about something operational. Whats a TOGA t/o? Can you do this
on any dash ten model or just on dash 30 models? Can you land with
the center gear retracted? Would that be on a late model or early
model DC10? If you TOGA at DH minimums will the gear contact the
runway in the fog? When will this happen?

You aren't qualified to spot anything but a student pilot, because
judging from your posts that's exactly what you are.

The moral of the story is to stick to what you know.
I haven't seen any evidence that you know anything Morgan.

Are you even a pilot?

pacplyer

"pacplyer" wrote: a bunch of predictable BS

Bill knows I'll buy him a beer some time and
show him my licences.

pacplyer

Why don't you buy any two of the other established RAH members a beer or
three sometime? Like Jim Weir, or Wantajaw? Or Chuck SuzaR&^&^%k, or Jay,
or Highflyer, or Urban? Prove to me you are not a figment of a warped
imagination. But see part of the problem is, you don't have a real name
here. No identity. No credibility. Any DC 10 captain could buy one of
these guys a beer and say they are pacplyer. IT WOULD PROVE NOTHING. So go
buy yourself a beer.
--
Jim in NC

P.S. I'm done with you for a while, until it amuses me to play with you
some more.


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In pacplyer wrote:

No Morgan, BWB's right. You're pretty clueless up there in your
hillbilly log cabin. Bill knows I'll buy him a beer some time and
show him my licences. Or take him down and preflight a ten sometime.
But unlike you, he is experienced with jet equipment and recognizes a
fellow jet operator. You simply don't have any experience in anything
to be able to spot a jet operator. Do you know what a pt2 and pt7
sensor is? Ever heard of EPR? Do you know what a PDU or an ACM is?
How about ECAM or GPWS? Three of these are not on DC-10's. Which
ones Morgan?

How about something operational. Whats a TOGA t/o? Can you do this
on any dash ten model or just on dash 30 models? Can you land with
the center gear retracted? Would that be on a late model or early
model DC10? If you TOGA at DH minimums will the gear contact the
runway in the fog? When will this happen?

Who here other than you and BWB really gives a ****? This is NOT rec.
aviation.jet-jocks; most of us are here because this is a hobby. This
newsgroup is devoted to small light planes constructed by amateurs for
education and recreation so you might get a more positive response if
you took your rantings to a more appropriate newsgroup. And not that it
matters, but I do know what most of your acronyms mean.

----------------------------------------------------
Del Rawlins-
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/

Del Rawlins wrote in message ...
In pacplyer wrote:

No Morgan, BWB's right. You're pretty clueless up there in your
hillbilly log cabin. Bill knows I'll buy him a beer some time and
show him my licences. Or take him down and preflight a ten sometime.
But unlike you, he is experienced with jet equipment and recognizes a
fellow jet operator. You simply don't have any experience in anything
to be able to spot a jet operator. Do you know what a pt2 and pt7
sensor is? Ever heard of EPR? Do you know what a PDU or an ACM is?
How about ECAM or GPWS? Three of these are not on DC-10's. Which
ones Morgan?

How about something operational. Whats a TOGA t/o? Can you do this
on any dash ten model or just on dash 30 models? Can you land with
the center gear retracted? Would that be on a late model or early
model DC10? If you TOGA at DH minimums will the gear contact the
runway in the fog? When will this happen?

Who here other than you and BWB really gives a ****? This is NOT rec.
aviation.jet-jocks; most of us are here because this is a hobby. This
newsgroup is devoted to small light planes constructed by amateurs for
education and recreation so you might get a more positive response if
you took your rantings to a more appropriate newsgroup. And not that it
matters, but I do know what most of your acronyms mean.

----------------------------------------------------
Del Rawlins-
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/

Yes, you are right Del. My having flown the big iron is not valid
here. (But I didn't bring it up.) My post was in response to Morgans
shooting from the hip on a subject he clearly knows nothing about. If
I was to tell you that I don't believe you're a Bearhawk Builder, and
you respond with specific problems you've encountered that are unique
to Bearhawk builders and nobody lurking challenges your claims, then
it's likely you're telling the truth. But if I'm paranoid like Bernie
the Butt**** and Morgans I won't beleive it since I did a search on
google and only came up with the marketing page. Del, you and others
here, I think, are still missing the more salient point of the value
of long term building and flying experience. Most of you don't have
this depth of experience. While you might be able to parrot these
basic airline 101 acronyms above, this doesn't make you a jet pilot.
There's no way you could answer the operational questions I posed
above since you've never flown the equipment. This exposes you as
unqualified to run off somebody who is discussing the DC10. But
you're probably qualified right now to run somebody off who is
spreading untruths about bearhawk building in this forum. Does one
project make you an expert builder? No. Does it give you the mandate
to run off more experienced builders/flyers who use foul language? No.

Jets are irrelevant here, true. I used to fly FAA proving runs and
teach jet groundschool. As an ATP I trained new co-pilots for eight
years. Who gives a ****! I agree. I don't hang out here to learn or
teach jets. I've already done all that. I hang out here to be
entertained by guys like BWB and learn a few things about homebuilding
in the process. It's just rec: (stands for recreation.) All this bad
blood between you people is ridiculous. When are you ever going to
get over it?

pac

In pacplyer wrote:

Yes, you are right Del. My having flown the big iron is not valid
here. (But I didn't bring it up.)

You may not have brought it up, but you are/were one of the people
holding it up as a yardstick against which other members of this
newsgroup should be measured.

My post was in response to Morgans
shooting from the hip on a subject he clearly knows nothing about.

So Jim thinks you are not who you say you are. If you are, then it
should be easy enough to make a fool out of him by posting your identity
and credentials here. If you are not willing to do so, then drop it and
let it ride. Consider it the price of your anonymity.

If
I was to tell you that I don't believe you're a Bearhawk Builder, and
you respond with specific problems you've encountered that are unique
to Bearhawk builders and nobody lurking challenges your claims, then
it's likely you're telling the truth.

The point is, I don't need to do that. My identity and posting history
are a matter of record, and I am known to Bearhawk builders both locally
and on the world wide Bearhawk email list. I even put together an
entire FAQ website as a service to builders and potential builders. The
same can be said of many posters to this group. If you were to get
really bored, you could pull up my name on the FAA database and see my
lowly PP-ASEL and current medical, and later on a couple more ratings
I've earned but which haven't shown up there yet.

But if I'm paranoid like Bernie
the Butt**** and Morgans I won't beleive it since I did a search on
google and only came up with the marketing page. Del, you and others
here, I think, are still missing the more salient point of the value
of long term building and flying experience. Most of you don't have
this depth of experience.

I don't ignore the value of that experience in general, I just don't see
it as having a lot of value to ME and I don't appreciate it being used
as a standard of comparison in a newsgroup where it is not relevant. In .
piloting, sure, but not here. I don't really care much about experience
in punching 747 shaped holes in the sky, or how much time at the top of
a loop a guy might have, because I have no interest in doing those
things. They simply aren't relevant to my task at hand, which is
getting something to fly in the first place.

While you might be able to parrot these
basic airline 101 acronyms above, this doesn't make you a jet pilot.
There's no way you could answer the operational questions I posed
above since you've never flown the equipment. This exposes you as
unqualified to run off somebody who is discussing the DC10.

For what it's worth, pilots aren't the only ones who need to know what
that equipment is and what it does. I'd like to make it clear that I am
not working on any of that stuff but I had to have at least a basic
understanding of it in order to get my most recent ratings.

But
you're probably qualified right now to run somebody off who is
spreading untruths about bearhawk building in this forum. Does one
project make you an expert builder? No.

Nobody here is qualified to run anybody off. All any of us can do is
post factual information as we understand it, and then let the newsgroup
decide. I can think of only one instance where somebody was physically
run off the newsgroup, and in that case it was the individual's employer
who actually did the deed, once they were informed of what their
employee was doing using company resources. It was BWB who did this (
aided by the resident uber-hackers who tracked him down) and at the time
he was widely hailed as a hero not only on this newsgroup, but on others
which had been targeted by the individual in question.

Does it give you the mandate
to run off more experienced builders/flyers who use foul language? No.

It doesn't give me or anyone else the mandate to run off less
experienced builders/flyers either.

Jets are irrelevant here, true. I used to fly FAA proving runs and
teach jet groundschool. As an ATP I trained new co-pilots for eight
years. Who gives a ****! I agree. I don't hang out here to learn or
teach jets. I've already done all that. I hang out here to be
entertained by guys like BWB and learn a few things about homebuilding
in the process. It's just rec: (stands for recreation.) All this bad
blood between you people is ridiculous. When are you ever going to
get over it?

The point is, the controversy surrounding BWB has reached the point
where it isn't about building or flying anymore, and it certainly isn't
entertaining. I do NOT have a dog in this fight and really do not care
what happened between him and the others at P'ville. I've tried to keep
an open mind towards him because he really does have a lot to offer and
has contributed greatly to the discussion here at times. But I also
can't help but notice the pattern of alienation of people who he once
called friends. Even Ammeter, who stuck with Bill through thick and
thin on this group, has now been lumped in with the rest of the "low
time wannabes" for having finally decided that enough was enough.

----------------------------------------------------
Del Rawlins-
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/

I didn't see this one, sorry my response is late Del. snip

Del Rawlins wrote
The point is, the controversy surrounding BWB has reached the point
where it isn't about building or flying anymore, and it certainly isn't
entertaining. I do NOT have a dog in this fight and really do not care
what happened between him and the others at P'ville. I've tried to keep
an open mind towards him because he really does have a lot to offer and
has contributed greatly to the discussion here at times. But I also
can't help but notice the pattern of alienation of people who he once
called friends. Even Ammeter, who stuck with Bill through thick and
thin on this group, has now been lumped in with the rest of the "low
time wannabes" for having finally decided that enough was enough.

snip

Del, in trying to figure out "what's reasonable" I try not to focus
on, what IMHO is a small dispute. If this thing was about someone
getting killed in an improperly built homebuilt that others could buy,
then I would agree with you: that individual should be ruthlessly
cross-examined and verbally expelled by the group. What I object to
here is the dishonest second identities that are created with the sole
objective of getting even with someone who is disliked. If
"Carburetor Bob" would come out and use one of the identities he has
always used and say: "foul language and social skills are more
important here than building time and flying experience," or "I feel
Bill's reached the point were I demand satisfaction" then I would
probably give it some weight and respect him for being a good
regulator of this unmoderated NG. BWB and Bob could go out to a
cornfield and dogfight to the death. But cheap shots don't cut it.

I realize this NG started out as a flying social. No reason that
shouldn't continue. I'm just pointing out that in my opinion, neither
you Del, or me pac have got the homebuilding experience credentials to
expel a guy like BWB. Now with my background as an A&P and a ME
instructor, if BWB started bragging in a serious manner that he was
making downwind takeoffs or takeoffs with one engine feathered out of
annual, then yes, it'd be up to me to try and run off a person like
that to prevent new pilots, who might read this board and
misunderstand and try the same thing. And yes, if somebody's trying
to hawk a real widow-maker he should be brought out for x-rays by
potential buyers like me. But if it's about who's acting like an
eccentric Howard Hughes, it's not relevant and I suggest you filter
him if you don't like it. Underhanded stabs in the back only make
free speech advocates like me view the BWB and Zoom witch hunts with
suspicion and contempt.

As always, all most posts are my opinions only,

pac

In pacplyer wrote:

Del, in trying to figure out "what's reasonable" I try not to focus
on, what IMHO is a small dispute.

It started over a small dispute but it hasn't been about that in a long
time.

If this thing was about someone
getting killed in an improperly built homebuilt that others could buy,
then I would agree with you: that individual should be ruthlessly
cross-examined and verbally expelled by the group.

Since when am I trying to get somebody expelled from the group? Even if
I wanted such a thing it is technically unfeasible to accomplish.

What I object to
here is the dishonest second identities that are created with the sole
objective of getting even with someone who is disliked.

I object to that also, along with anonymous posting in general.

"Carburetor Bob" would come out and use one of the identities he has
always used and say: "foul language and social skills are more
important here than building time and flying experience,"

Having more building time and flying experience doesn't give anybody
license to treat other people like ****, either. Occasionally over the
last 2 years I've had to deal with a guy who is an A&P/IA but is also a
complete asshole who thinks he is god's gift to aviation. He could
probably teach me a lot about building and restoring aircraft but to me,
the price of admission is just too high. Now that I don't have to deal
with him anymore I won't. There are just too many people with equal or
better experience who don't have a need to treat less experienced people
like ****.

or "I feel
Bill's reached the point were I demand satisfaction" then I would
probably give it some weight and respect him for being a good
regulator of this unmoderated NG. BWB and Bob could go out to a
cornfield and dogfight to the death. But cheap shots don't cut it.

Well, unfortunately our society has seen fit to outlaw the time honored
tradition of duelling.

I realize this NG started out as a flying social. No reason that
shouldn't continue.

The newsgroup has always been about homebuilding but also includes a
social aspect that occasionally gets out of hand. I don't really want
to change that and have in the past argued against such a change.

I'm just pointing out that in my opinion, neither
you Del, or me pac have got the homebuilding experience credentials to
expel a guy like BWB.

Credentials or not, neither of us are trying to expel him, and could not
do so even if we wanted. I've actually gotten a lot of value out of
Bill's postings over the time that I've been here. I'm just tired of
the bull**** that always seems to surround him.

Now with my background as an A&P and a ME
instructor, if BWB started bragging in a serious manner that he was
making downwind takeoffs or takeoffs with one engine feathered out of
annual, then yes, it'd be up to me to try and run off a person like
that to prevent new pilots, who might read this board and
misunderstand and try the same thing.

Well, any new pilot dumb enough to try those things based on reading
about them on the internet probably deserves to be removed from the gene
pool, preferably before he/she earns their private and is allowed to
carry passengers. But as far as running somebody off, you can't do that
anyway, since there is no mechanism by which you can force them to stop
posting. You can call them an irresponsible buffoon and they may
voluntarily leave, but there isn't much you can do to actually make
somebody go, no matter how badly each of us might want that ability at
times.

And yes, if somebody's trying
to hawk a real widow-maker he should be brought out for x-rays by
potential buyers like me. But if it's about who's acting like an
eccentric Howard Hughes, it's not relevant and I suggest you filter
him if you don't like it. Underhanded stabs in the back only make
free speech advocates like me view the BWB and Zoom witch hunts with
suspicion and contempt.

So tell me, whose free speech is being restricted here, and who have I
stabbed in the back? And although I am not interested in discussing him
at this time, I suggest you need to do a little more research on Zoom in
order to understand exactly WHY he has generated such a negative
response here.

----------------------------------------------------
Del Rawlins-
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
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"Del Rawlins" wrote in message
...
[...]in the back? And although I am not interested in discussing him
at this time, I suggest you need to do a little more research on Zoom in
order to understand exactly WHY he has generated such a negative
response here.

Oh, hell, dull Del, he threatened to sue anyone who jeered him. 15 or so
called his bluff and he did sue, and lost. He's an autoerotic nympho for
himself, has passed himself off as a doctor, and is a braggart poseur and
tells lies by the bundles, and is a damned sight more interesting character
than you are.

" jls" wrote in message ...
"Del Rawlins" wrote in message
...
[...]in the back? And although I am not interested in discussing him
at this time, I suggest you need to do a little more research on Zoom in
order to understand exactly WHY he has generated such a negative
response here.

Oh, hell, dull Del, he threatened to sue anyone who jeered him. 15 or so
called his bluff and he did sue, and lost. He's an autoerotic nympho for
himself, has passed himself off as a doctor, and is a braggart poseur and
tells lies by the bundles, and is a damned sight more interesting character
than you are.

Geez Larry, he sounds just like half the posters here. Except RAH
posters try to pass themselves off as bona fide pilots and builders!
I like him already. I say we invite Captain Zoom back to RAH.

pac

(pacplyer) wrote in message . com...

I'm just pointing out that in my opinion, neither
you Del, or me pac have got the homebuilding experience credentials to
expel a guy like BWB. Now with my background as an A&P and a ME
instructor,

Why do you think BWB has homebuilding experience? He built a Mini-max
and a weight shift Quicksilver. If you have an A&P you have 10 times
as much experience as he does. He bought all his airplanes. People
have more homebuilding experience in an RV-8 tail kit than he has.
Forget about his hours. He's never worked as a professional pilot.
He has the ratings now but do you really think he's flown 3000 hours
in helos in 3 years? Or that he learned to fly when he was 8 years
old? Or that he flew CIA helo missions in Cambodia as a 17 year old
civilian without a helo license? Or that he flew radioactive cloud
tracking missions in Nevada 10 years after the atmospheric test ban
treaty?

Sure, the EPA let him fly Hueys without a rating or a helo license.
That's the way the government works, it doesn't matter if you have the
paperwork or not, if you can do it they give you a million dollar helo
to cruise around in. You want to buy a bridge in New York?

Bill can't create anything, so the best he has is tearing people down.