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#1
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Using ship fuel as aviation fuel?
If necessary, is it possible to use F-76 as aviation fuel? I've read
somewhere that the RN's Invincible class carrier can trade off her endurance for embarked air group's endurance by using ship fuel tanks as 'swing tanks'. Can anyone confirm this one way or the other? Thanks in advance |
#2
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"KDR" wrote in message m... If necessary, is it possible to use F-76 as aviation fuel? I've read somewhere that the RN's Invincible class carrier can trade off her endurance for embarked air group's endurance by using ship fuel tanks as 'swing tanks'. Can anyone confirm this one way or the other? Thanks in advance i think they mean that they can put either type of fuel in the fuel tanks and not that one fuel fits all |
#3
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"KDR" wrote...
If necessary, is it possible to use F-76 as aviation fuel? I've read somewhere that the RN's Invincible class carrier can trade off her endurance for embarked air group's endurance by using ship fuel tanks as 'swing tanks'. Can anyone confirm this one way or the other? I believe the ship can burn the jet fuel, but the jets cannot burn the ship's diesel/turbine fuel. Many modern jet engines are very sensitive to fuel type because of the high temps and close tolerances within the engines. The older J-85 could use JP4 or 5; Jet A, A1, or B; and 115 AvGas; I don't remember if it could use F-76. However, the J-52 could not use AvGas. In the US navy, the nuclear powered carriers only carry JP4 or JP8 (and all on-board diesel-powered equipment use the JP), so any smaller ships that refuel from the carrier (a relatively common practice) get the jet fuel. I've talked with several "oil kings" in the past, and they all told me the diesels much preferred diesel fuel over JP because of its lubricity and energy content. The big turbines didn't much care. Another problem would be the aircraft engines' lesser tolerance for water contamination. The ship would have to keep the higher contamination standards for any fuel transferred to aircraft. |
#4
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"John R Weiss" wrote in message news:7Hzfc.44106$xn4.148857@attbi_s51... snip I've talked with several "oil kings" in the past, and they all told me the diesels much preferred diesel fuel over JP because of its lubricity and energy content. The big turbines didn't much care. The high compression ratios for diesel piston engines cause detonation using wide cut jet fuel. |
#5
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"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message ...
"John R Weiss" wrote in message news:7Hzfc.44106$xn4.148857@attbi_s51... snip I've talked with several "oil kings" in the past, and they all told me the diesels much preferred diesel fuel over JP because of its lubricity and energy content. The big turbines didn't much care. The high compression ratios for diesel piston engines cause detonation using wide cut jet fuel. Multi-fuel diesel engines can be built and frequently are for the military vehicles such as tanks. It involves specialy adjustable injection systems and other provisions to do with lubriticity. Running on Jet fuel or Gaoline is not problem in the short term for such engines. A critical factor for the diesel engine is the "cetane number" and it is important to have a high centane number. A high cetane number means that the fuel will ignite easily but burn slowly. One problem that the German Fischer Tropsh snthetic fuel plants had in WW2 was that the fuel had far to high a cetane number and burned a little to slowly. This lowered efficiency and increased exhaust temperature althout it had to be used frequently. The solution was to blend the fuel with the low cetane output of the Bergius Hydrogenation plants. At one point prior to WW2 kerosene powered spark ignition were quite popular and they still have their proponents. Gas turbines are ofcourse indifferent to both centane number and octane rating and even viscosity and are uneffected in life or efficiency (whuch reduce in multifuel diesels) At the moment there are attempts to develop 'photo detonation' internal combustion engines that do not rely on deflageration combustion (ie combustion along a flame front rather than by infra red light) and thus will be indifferent to octane ratings. |
#6
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"Tarver Engineering" wrote...
The high compression ratios for diesel piston engines cause detonation using wide cut jet fuel. AFAIK, neither JP-5 nor JP-8 nor Jet A -- the 3 jet fuels currently in common use -- are "wide cut." |
#7
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"John R Weiss" wrote in message news:PhTfc.150671$w54.1052744@attbi_s01... "Tarver Engineering" wrote... The high compression ratios for diesel piston engines cause detonation using wide cut jet fuel. AFAIK, neither JP-5 nor JP-8 nor Jet A -- the 3 jet fuels currently in common use -- are "wide cut." One of them seems to be number one diesel, from what other posters have posted here. |
#8
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"Eunometic" wrote in message om... At the moment there are attempts to develop 'photo detonation' internal combustion engines that do not rely on deflageration combustion (ie combustion along a flame front rather than by infra red light) and thus will be indifferent to octane ratings. Where can I learn more about this? Curious old school gear head here Jim E |
#9
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"Jim E" wrote in message ...
"Eunometic" wrote in message om... At the moment there are attempts to develop 'photo detonation' internal combustion engines that do not rely on deflageration combustion (ie combustion along a flame front rather than by infra red light) and thus will be indifferent to octane ratings. Where can I learn more about this? Curious old school gear head here Jim E Use the advanced options in google groups search to find this thread: Message-ID: |
#10
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Hi NG,
The high compression ratios for diesel piston engines cause detonation using wide cut jet fuel. Diesel engines cannot "detonate". The term "detonation" applies to preignition of part of the charge before ignition or before the flamefront has reached that portion of the charge. Sometimes if the flamefront goes supersonic this is also called "detonation". Neither can happen on a diesel engine, as the charge contains only air and the fuel burnes as it is injected. As said before, Diesel engines will burn jetfuel, however the lubrication properties are much lower so the injection system has to be designed to live with that. (As a matter of fact, the same thing applies to Diesel engines for GA aircraft, which are just hitting the market now, and all of which run on Jetfuel!) Also energy content is somewhat lower. If designed for it, this can be compensated by increasing the amount of injected fuel accordingly. regards, Friedrich -- bitte für persönliche Antworten die offensichtliche Änderung an meiner Adresse vornehmen |
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