Seniors USA 2009 Start and Finish notes..... # 711 reporting

What we saw on the new start at the Seniors was in simple
words....works great, will be good for along time. Just a note you
might want to remember. When you leave threw the top, make sure your
flown distance agrees with the distance given you by the scorer. Most
of us found a good thermal, dropped down into the cylinder for our 2
minutes below MSH and then thermaled up in the thermal, staying below
cloud base and left on course.

On the finish. Now, this is for you, Joe the sailplane racers, you
need to slow down before crossing into the finish cylinder at the
minium finish height. Your altimeter will read wrong at the end of the
day and your logger will lag when you cross into the cylinder. We saw
alot of finish penalities of 10 to 30 points because some guys were
coming in at 130 KTS and crossing into the clyinder at what their
altimeter said. Well, we all were warned its best to slow down before
crossing into the cylinder at least 10 seconds before you get their
and don't count on your altimeter to read correctly at the end of the
day. You will lose the fight with the scorer as he uses your logger
and what it reads as your altitude when you finish. He DOESN'T see
your cockpit altimeter when you finish.

That about covers the new start and finish. We had limited internet
coverage here at the Seniors and posting news and information was not
easy. I did try and post the last day information, but I couldn't get
service. My next stop is Perry and hopefully will be able to update my
blog with daily news.

Also, for those who race sports class, new 2009 handicaps need to be
checked. Its best to take your given handicap speed and divide by the
raw speed on your score sheet to see if your handicap is correct. It
might be a tad off because of the weight adjustment, but if its alot
off, either way, bring it to the attention of the scorer. This may be
best by writing down your case as then it will be addressed.

Thermal tight, Soar high, Fly safe. #711 reporting.

On Mar 17, 10:09šam, wrote:

When you leave threw the top, make sure your
flown distance agrees with the distance given you by the scorer.

Its best to take your given handicap speed and divide by the
raw speed on your score sheet to see if your handicap is correct.


In other words:

Winscore - äÏ×ÅÒÑÊ, ÎÏ ÐÒÏ×ÅÒÑÊ (Trust but verify)

Guy Byars

What we saw on the new start at the Seniors was in simple
words....works great, will be good for along time.

If Tom is happy, it must be working well!


On the finish. Now, this is for you, Joe the sailplane racers, you
need to slow down before crossing into the finish cylinder at the
minium finish height. Your altimeter will read wrong at the end of the
day and your logger will lag when you cross into the cylinder. We saw
alot of finish penalities of 10 to 30 points because some guys were
coming in at 130 KTS and crossing into the clyinder at what their
altimeter said.

Just to clarify this, you should get the more favorable of takeoff
altimeter setting or finish altimeter setting. This is (I hope) about
the difference between mechanical altimeter and pressure in the
logger, not about pressure change during the day. If you look at
(say) the 302 altitude display and it says 501' above takeoff height,
you should be ok. Of course, none of us is silly enough to be staring
at instruments as we enter crowded airspace, and we all leave a 50
foot margin, right?

John Cochrane

just thinking... It would be really cool if the score sheet included
an indication of exactly where in the cyclinder the start was
calculated from. This could be expressed as a bearing and radius
from the center of the cylinder. Examples: 164 deg, 3.82 mi. for an
out-the-top start or 88 deg, 5.00 mi for a start out the perimeter.

On Mar 17, 8:14*am, John Cochrane
wrote:
Just to clarify this, you should get the more favorable of takeoff
altimeter setting or finish altimeter setting. This is (I hope) about
the difference between mechanical altimeter and pressure in the
logger, not about pressure change during the day. *If you look at
(say) the 302 altitude display and it says 501' above takeoff height,
you should be ok. *Of course, none of us is silly enough to be staring
at instruments as we enter crowded airspace, and we all leave a 50
foot margin, right?

*John Cochrane

In Arizona I see up to 100ft difference between pressure altitude at
takeoff and pressure altitude on landing. The altimeter reads high at
the end of the day.

If the rule allows most favorable of takeoff or landing setting that
seems to mean anyone setting their altimeter to the local setting on
final glide may finish up to 100ft higher than they need to.

Wouldn't it be better for the finish to be based on landing pressure
altitude and for the contestants to be provided a local altimeter
setting as part of the finish briefing.


Andy

On Mar 17, 9:09*am, wrote:
..
..
Well, we all were warned its best to slow down before
crossing into the cylinder at least 10 seconds before you get their
and don't count on your altimeter to read correctly at the end of the
day.
..
..
Thermal tight, Soar high, Fly safe. #711 reporting.

I expect to hear/see a LOT of comments on this practice being
encouraged. Isn't this the most dangerous aspect of using a Finish
Cylinder? ... pilots focusing on the "top" of the invisible cylinder
wall and pulling up in front fo other finishers who are trying to see
the same invisible wall "top"? ... using different altimeter
readings? ...using relatively coarse GPS location and readout
delays? ... at ~ 200fps?

Disclaimer - If the above stated warning from contest officials was
recommending that pilots "slow down" not by changing their glideslope
(pulling up) but by deploying airbrakes to give their altimeters time
to catch up, .. then I retract my comment

Curt "still slightly favoring a Finsh Line" Lewis - 95

On Mar 17, 12:35*pm, Curt wrote:
On Mar 17, 9:09*am, wrote:
.
. Well, we all were warned its best to slow down before
crossing into the cylinder at least 10 seconds before you get their
and don't count on your altimeter to read correctly at the end of the
day.

.
.

Thermal tight, Soar high, Fly safe. #711 reporting.

I expect to hear/see a LOT of comments on this practice being
encouraged. *Isn't this the most dangerous aspect of using a Finish
Cylinder? ... pilots focusing on the "top" of the invisible cylinder
wall and pulling up in front fo other finishers who are trying to see
the same invisible wall "top"? ... using different altimeter
readings? ...using relatively coarse GPS location and readout
delays? ... at ~ 200fps?

Disclaimer - If the above stated warning from contest officials was
recommending that pilots "slow down" not by changing their glideslope
(pulling up) but by deploying airbrakes to give their altimeters time
to catch up, .. then I retract my comment

Curt "still slightly favoring a Finsh Line" Lewis - 95


Maybe we should require that you be 100 kts and above the minimum
finish height for two minutes prior to finish. [Sarcasm intended]

I'd suggest that a gentle pull up is preferable to pulling the
brakes. The common sense approach to finishing is to visually acquire
any traffic that's called in ahead of you (4 miles out). If you can't
ID the traffic, maintain a reasonable cruise speed (staying higher
than you might otherwise) and keep looking. Do that and you shouldn't
have a conflict. If you suspect you might have a conflict, well, get
on the radio.

Being 20 seconds slow (due to finishing high) costs you 2 points.
Cheap insurance.

I really miss those old finish gate runs. That was a lot of fun.

Evan Ludeman / T8

On Mar 17, 12:35*pm, Curt wrote:
On Mar 17, 9:09*am, wrote:
.
. Well, we all were warned its best to slow down before
crossing into the cylinder at least 10 seconds before you get their
and don't count on your altimeter to read correctly at the end of the
day.

.
.

Thermal tight, Soar high, Fly safe. #711 reporting.

I expect to hear/see a LOT of comments on this practice being
encouraged. *Isn't this the most dangerous aspect of using a Finish
Cylinder? ... pilots focusing on the "top" of the invisible cylinder
wall and pulling up in front fo other finishers who are trying to see
the same invisible wall "top"? ... using different altimeter
readings? ...using relatively coarse GPS location and readout
delays? ... at ~ 200fps?

Disclaimer - If the above stated warning from contest officials was
recommending that pilots "slow down" not by changing their glideslope
(pulling up) but by deploying airbrakes to give their altimeters time
to catch up, .. then I retract my comment

Curt "still slightly favoring a Finsh Line" Lewis - 95

Maybe we should require that you be 100 kts and above the minimum
finish height for two minutes prior to finish. [Sarcasm intended]

I'd suggest that a gentle pull up is preferable to pulling the
brakes. It's easier to see from behind, easier to predict what you're
going to do next (easier to gauge the energy state of a glider pulling
up than one with its brakes open) and it doesn't pin your head to the
canopy.

What you hope is that the guy following you is flying sensibly. My
common sense approach to finishing is to visually acquire
any traffic that's called in ahead of you (4 miles out). If you can't
ID the traffic, maintain a reasonable cruise speed (staying higher
than you might otherwise) and keep looking. Do that and you shouldn't
have a conflict. If you suspect you might have a conflict, well, get
on the radio.

Being 20 seconds slow (due to finishing high) costs you 2 points.
Cheap insurance.

I really miss those old finish gate runs. That was a lot of fun.

Evan Ludeman / T8

On Mar 17, 12:35*pm, Curt wrote:
On Mar 17, 9:09*am, wrote:
.
. Well, we all were warned its best to slow down before
crossing into the cylinder at least 10 seconds before you get their
and don't count on your altimeter to read correctly at the end of the
day.

.
.

Thermal tight, Soar high, Fly safe. #711 reporting.

I expect to hear/see a LOT of comments on this practice being
encouraged. *Isn't this the most dangerous aspect of using a Finish
Cylinder? ... pilots focusing on the "top" of the invisible cylinder
wall and pulling up in front fo other finishers who are trying to see
the same invisible wall "top"? ... using different altimeter
readings? ...using relatively coarse GPS location and readout
delays? ... at ~ 200fps?

Disclaimer - If the above stated warning from contest officials was
recommending that pilots "slow down" not by changing their glideslope
(pulling up) but by deploying airbrakes to give their altimeters time
to catch up, .. then I retract my comment

Curt "still slightly favoring a Finsh Line" Lewis - 95

This was not suggesting hard pull up.
Best solution I've found is get to my finish altitude(50 to 100 ft
above cylinder) a mile or so out and coast in at constant altitude
gradually slowing. If I hit it right, I cross at exactly my average
speed for the day(this never happens but I'm usually 80 mph or so).
Most of the errors seem to be related to cockpit static used for most
altimeters causing pilots to miss height.
There is a provision for using landing baro pressure before issuing
finish height score adjustments due to changes during the day. Scorer
has to do this manually as I understand it.
UH

This was not suggesting hard pull up.
Best solution I've found is get to my finish altitude(50 to 100 ft
above cylinder) a mile or so out and coast in at constant altitude
gradually slowing. If I hit it right, I cross at exactly my average
speed for the day(this never happens but I'm usually 80 mph or so).
Most of the errors seem to be related to cockpit static used for most
altimeters causing pilots to miss height.
UH

This is so good it's worth repeating: DON'T DO BIG PULLUPS AT THE
FINISH CIRCLE. Or pushoevers for that matter. You cannot see who is
above and behind you if you pull up, you cannot see who is below you
in a push over. If you pull up, the glider above you cannot see you at
all. There are other gliders at the finish gate! I have had a glider
appear out of nowhere from above and behind just at the finish circle,
needing a sharp negative g push from me to avoid. I've heard several
other stories, like gliders appearing from nowhere just off the nose.
Looking sideways too might not be such a bad idea either.

Hank's method is more efficient, much safer, and keeps his eyes out of
the cockpit. Amen brother Hank!

John Cochrane