Rivnuts and Nutserts

Can someone give a brief description of the differences of the two? When
one would be used instead of the other?

Rivnuts when installed correctly, will draw up and expand only on the
portion protruding thru the opposite side of the material. Works great for
installation into most hard or rigid materials and like rivets, come in
varying lengths to accomodate material thickness. Anti rotation device is a
provided by a notch in the hole that "keys" the fastener.

Nutserts (not nut plates) are not as commmonly used on the other hand expand
along the entirel ength of the sert, and is more conducive to aplications in
soft materials such as honeycomb, fiberboard, etc. I have seen them simply
epoxy potted in place on honeycomb and other laminated material. Anti
rotation device is provided by a serrations around the circumference edge
which makes hole size and depth critical

I dont believe EITHER of these is considered to be a structural fastener and
both are problematic when they become loose.

Hope this helps
Mike in Dallas

"John Talbert" wrote in message
...
Can someone give a brief description of the differences of the two? When
one would be used instead of the other?

Hi All,

I've tried using rivnuts, but have ruined the threads on the tool piece
each time. How does one know when enough force is used and not too much?
Jim Burns
"mike" wrote in message
news:ZOfkb.812319$Ho3.221284@sccrnsc03...
Rivnuts when installed correctly, will draw up and expand only on the
portion protruding thru the opposite side of the material. Works great for
installation into most hard or rigid materials and like rivets, come in
varying lengths to accomodate material thickness. Anti rotation device is
a
provided by a notch in the hole that "keys" the fastener.

Nutserts (not nut plates) are not as commmonly used on the other hand
expand
along the entirel ength of the sert, and is more conducive to aplications
in
soft materials such as honeycomb, fiberboard, etc. I have seen them simply
epoxy potted in place on honeycomb and other laminated material. Anti
rotation device is provided by a serrations around the circumference edge
which makes hole size and depth critical

I dont believe EITHER of these is considered to be a structural fastener
and
both are problematic when they become loose.

Hope this helps
Mike in Dallas

"John Talbert" wrote in message
...
Can someone give a brief description of the differences of the two?
When
one would be used instead of the other?

depends on the puller - if you use the small one shaped like a top that uses
the Allen key, you get a feel for it when the allen gets a smidgen harder to
turn. The more righteous pullers are the long ones with the pull handle
that quick threads the rivnut onto the tool before insertion. Those have an
adjustable tip so you can pretty much calibrate the amount of pull on the
rivnut. They are quite a bit faster too especilly if you have several to
pull

I think US Tool sells both types of pullers

Mike

"WhiteKnukles" wrote in message
...
Hi All,

I've tried using rivnuts, but have ruined the threads on the tool
piece
each time. How does one know when enough force is used and not too much?
Jim Burns
"mike" wrote in message
news:ZOfkb.812319$Ho3.221284@sccrnsc03...
Rivnuts when installed correctly, will draw up and expand only on the
portion protruding thru the opposite side of the material. Works great
for
installation into most hard or rigid materials and like rivets, come in
varying lengths to accomodate material thickness. Anti rotation device
is
a
provided by a notch in the hole that "keys" the fastener.

Nutserts (not nut plates) are not as commmonly used on the other hand
expand
along the entirel ength of the sert, and is more conducive to
aplications
in
soft materials such as honeycomb, fiberboard, etc. I have seen them
simply
epoxy potted in place on honeycomb and other laminated material. Anti
rotation device is provided by a serrations around the circumference
edge
which makes hole size and depth critical

I dont believe EITHER of these is considered to be a structural fastener
and
both are problematic when they become loose.

Hope this helps
Mike in Dallas

"John Talbert" wrote in message
...
Can someone give a brief description of the differences of the two?
When
one would be used instead of the other?

Mike, the driver that I've used is very similar to the Pop rivet type that
is squeezed like a pair of pliers. I tend to squeeze as I would to set a Pop
rivet, but with dire results. Is this the same type of tool that you refer
to as a "righteous puller"? It would seem that there needs to be some sort
of torque setting control, as there isn't much feel for when the nut is set.
Jim
"mike" wrote in message
news:lzHkb.185359$%h1.175838@sccrnsc02...
depends on the puller - if you use the small one shaped like a top that
uses
the Allen key, you get a feel for it when the allen gets a smidgen harder
to
turn. The more righteous pullers are the long ones with the pull handle
that quick threads the rivnut onto the tool before insertion. Those have
an
adjustable tip so you can pretty much calibrate the amount of pull on the
rivnut. They are quite a bit faster too especilly if you have several to
pull

I think US Tool sells both types of pullers

Mike

"WhiteKnukles" wrote in message
...
Hi All,

I've tried using rivnuts, but have ruined the threads on the tool
piece
each time. How does one know when enough force is used and not too much?
Jim Burns
"mike" wrote in message
news:ZOfkb.812319$Ho3.221284@sccrnsc03...
Rivnuts when installed correctly, will draw up and expand only on the
portion protruding thru the opposite side of the material. Works great
for
installation into most hard or rigid materials and like rivets, come
in
varying lengths to accomodate material thickness. Anti rotation device
is
a
provided by a notch in the hole that "keys" the fastener.

Nutserts (not nut plates) are not as commmonly used on the other hand
expand
along the entirel ength of the sert, and is more conducive to
aplications
in
soft materials such as honeycomb, fiberboard, etc. I have seen them
simply
epoxy potted in place on honeycomb and other laminated material. Anti
rotation device is provided by a serrations around the circumference
edge
which makes hole size and depth critical

I dont believe EITHER of these is considered to be a structural
fastener
and
both are problematic when they become loose.

Hope this helps
Mike in Dallas

"John Talbert" wrote in message
...
Can someone give a brief description of the differences of the two?
When
one would be used instead of the other?

what you are describing is the 'preferred' puller. First make sure you are
using the correct length rivnut for the thickness material. Second, adjust
the tip on the end by scewing it in or out. Doing this will adjust the total
travel of the anvil, and this the total expansion of the rivnut. This is a
nice feature on this tool because, once set, it pulls a perfect rivnut every
time.

Screwing the tip out increases the throw, screwing it in decreases the
throw. If you are stripping riv nusts, you need to screw it in.
If possible, get a test piece the same thickness as your work and calibrate
the tool before you do the installation

Mike

"WhiteKnukles" wrote in message
...
Mike, the driver that I've used is very similar to the Pop rivet type that
is squeezed like a pair of pliers. I tend to squeeze as I would to set a
Pop
rivet, but with dire results. Is this the same type of tool that you refer
to as a "righteous puller"? It would seem that there needs to be some sort
of torque setting control, as there isn't much feel for when the nut is
set.
Jim
"mike" wrote in message
news:lzHkb.185359$%h1.175838@sccrnsc02...
depends on the puller - if you use the small one shaped like a top that
uses
the Allen key, you get a feel for it when the allen gets a smidgen
harder
to
turn. The more righteous pullers are the long ones with the pull handle
that quick threads the rivnut onto the tool before insertion. Those have
an
adjustable tip so you can pretty much calibrate the amount of pull on
the
rivnut. They are quite a bit faster too especilly if you have several to
pull

I think US Tool sells both types of pullers

Mike

"WhiteKnukles" wrote in message
...
Hi All,

I've tried using rivnuts, but have ruined the threads on the tool
piece
each time. How does one know when enough force is used and not too
much?
Jim Burns
"mike" wrote in message
news:ZOfkb.812319$Ho3.221284@sccrnsc03...
Rivnuts when installed correctly, will draw up and expand only on
the
portion protruding thru the opposite side of the material. Works
great
for
installation into most hard or rigid materials and like rivets, come
in
varying lengths to accomodate material thickness. Anti rotation
device
is
a
provided by a notch in the hole that "keys" the fastener.

Nutserts (not nut plates) are not as commmonly used on the other
hand
expand
along the entirel ength of the sert, and is more conducive to
aplications
in
soft materials such as honeycomb, fiberboard, etc. I have seen them
simply
epoxy potted in place on honeycomb and other laminated material.
Anti
rotation device is provided by a serrations around the circumference
edge
which makes hole size and depth critical

I dont believe EITHER of these is considered to be a structural
fastener
and
both are problematic when they become loose.

Hope this helps
Mike in Dallas

"John Talbert" wrote in message
...
Can someone give a brief description of the differences of the
two?
When
one would be used instead of the other?

Mike,
The rivnuts don't strip, it's the threaded part of the tool that
elongates. Maybe the tool is too cheap? Thanks for the tips,
Jim
"mike" wrote in message
. net...
what you are describing is the 'preferred' puller. First make sure you are
using the correct length rivnut for the thickness material. Second, adjust
the tip on the end by scewing it in or out. Doing this will adjust the
total
travel of the anvil, and this the total expansion of the rivnut. This is a
nice feature on this tool because, once set, it pulls a perfect rivnut
every
time.

Screwing the tip out increases the throw, screwing it in decreases the
throw. If you are stripping riv nusts, you need to screw it in.
If possible, get a test piece the same thickness as your work and
calibrate
the tool before you do the installation

Mike

"WhiteKnukles" wrote in message
...
Mike, the driver that I've used is very similar to the Pop rivet type
that
is squeezed like a pair of pliers. I tend to squeeze as I would to set a
Pop
rivet, but with dire results. Is this the same type of tool that you
refer
to as a "righteous puller"? It would seem that there needs to be some
sort
of torque setting control, as there isn't much feel for when the nut is
set.
Jim
"mike" wrote in message
news:lzHkb.185359$%h1.175838@sccrnsc02...
depends on the puller - if you use the small one shaped like a top
that
uses
the Allen key, you get a feel for it when the allen gets a smidgen
harder
to
turn. The more righteous pullers are the long ones with the pull
handle
that quick threads the rivnut onto the tool before insertion. Those
have
an
adjustable tip so you can pretty much calibrate the amount of pull on
the
rivnut. They are quite a bit faster too especilly if you have several
to
pull

I think US Tool sells both types of pullers

Mike

"WhiteKnukles" wrote in message
...
Hi All,

I've tried using rivnuts, but have ruined the threads on the
tool
piece
each time. How does one know when enough force is used and not too
much?
Jim Burns
"mike" wrote in message
news:ZOfkb.812319$Ho3.221284@sccrnsc03...
Rivnuts when installed correctly, will draw up and expand only on
the
portion protruding thru the opposite side of the material. Works
great
for
installation into most hard or rigid materials and like rivets,
come
in
varying lengths to accomodate material thickness. Anti rotation
device
is
a
provided by a notch in the hole that "keys" the fastener.

Nutserts (not nut plates) are not as commmonly used on the other
hand
expand
along the entirel ength of the sert, and is more conducive to
aplications
in
soft materials such as honeycomb, fiberboard, etc. I have seen
them
simply
epoxy potted in place on honeycomb and other laminated material.
Anti
rotation device is provided by a serrations around the
circumference
edge
which makes hole size and depth critical

I dont believe EITHER of these is considered to be a structural
fastener
and
both are problematic when they become loose.

Hope this helps
Mike in Dallas

"John Talbert" wrote in message
...
Can someone give a brief description of the differences of the
two?
When
one would be used instead of the other?

it may be. The anvil in all the tools Ihave seen is made of a very hard,
high-grade tool steel.
I cant see the anvil stretching if thats what you are saying.

"WhiteKnukles" wrote in message
...
Mike,
The rivnuts don't strip, it's the threaded part of the tool that
elongates. Maybe the tool is too cheap? Thanks for the tips,
Jim
"mike" wrote in message
. net...
what you are describing is the 'preferred' puller. First make sure you
are
using the correct length rivnut for the thickness material. Second,
adjust
the tip on the end by scewing it in or out. Doing this will adjust the
total
travel of the anvil, and this the total expansion of the rivnut. This is
a
nice feature on this tool because, once set, it pulls a perfect rivnut
every
time.

Screwing the tip out increases the throw, screwing it in decreases the
throw. If you are stripping riv nusts, you need to screw it in.
If possible, get a test piece the same thickness as your work and
calibrate
the tool before you do the installation

Mike

"WhiteKnukles" wrote in message
...
Mike, the driver that I've used is very similar to the Pop rivet type
that
is squeezed like a pair of pliers. I tend to squeeze as I would to set
a
Pop
rivet, but with dire results. Is this the same type of tool that you
refer
to as a "righteous puller"? It would seem that there needs to be some
sort
of torque setting control, as there isn't much feel for when the nut
is
set.
Jim
"mike" wrote in message
news:lzHkb.185359$%h1.175838@sccrnsc02...
depends on the puller - if you use the small one shaped like a top
that
uses
the Allen key, you get a feel for it when the allen gets a smidgen
harder
to
turn. The more righteous pullers are the long ones with the pull
handle
that quick threads the rivnut onto the tool before insertion. Those
have
an
adjustable tip so you can pretty much calibrate the amount of pull
on
the
rivnut. They are quite a bit faster too especilly if you have
several
to
pull

I think US Tool sells both types of pullers

Mike

"WhiteKnukles" wrote in message
...
Hi All,

I've tried using rivnuts, but have ruined the threads on the
tool
piece
each time. How does one know when enough force is used and not too
much?
Jim Burns
"mike" wrote in message
news:ZOfkb.812319$Ho3.221284@sccrnsc03...
Rivnuts when installed correctly, will draw up and expand only
on
the
portion protruding thru the opposite side of the material. Works
great
for
installation into most hard or rigid materials and like rivets,
come
in
varying lengths to accomodate material thickness. Anti rotation
device
is
a
provided by a notch in the hole that "keys" the fastener.

Nutserts (not nut plates) are not as commmonly used on the other
hand
expand
along the entirel ength of the sert, and is more conducive to
aplications
in
soft materials such as honeycomb, fiberboard, etc. I have seen
them
simply
epoxy potted in place on honeycomb and other laminated material.
Anti
rotation device is provided by a serrations around the
circumference
edge
which makes hole size and depth critical

I dont believe EITHER of these is considered to be a structural
fastener
and
both are problematic when they become loose.

Hope this helps
Mike in Dallas

"John Talbert" wrote in message
...
Can someone give a brief description of the differences of the
two?
When
one would be used instead of the other?

For what it's worth, I've pulled #8 Rivnuts with the combo pop-rivet tool
from
Harbor Freight. Worked fine, but there is little adjustment on the threaded
mandrel, so one has to be careful not to over-squeeze the rivnut and pull
the
threads right out. Usually takes me 1 practice rivnut to get it right, and
I get
to practice drilling that one out, too!

HF's tool was about $15, if I recall correctly, which is way less expensive
that the "real" rivnut tools. The "real" ones, as Mike says, are adjustable
so you don't have to practice. But for no more than I use 'em, I get by.

As for coming loose, I've only used the keyed rivnuts, which are something
of
a pain to install unless you have the notcher to cut the little notch for
the key.
One of the tool suppliers had a half-off special on that little jobbie this
year,
so I brought one home with me, and it was worth every penny. I had been
cutting the notch with a small needle file, and it took a bit of fiddling to
get it
right.

HF also sells a version of the blind threaded fastener (they're not rivnuts,
so I won't call 'em that). I recently had occasion to try using some #6s
of those, and found that my fancy puller wouldn't work, because the #6
mandrel was .010 undersize, and just ripped out of the insert's threads.
I measured the mandrel diameter vs a #6 screw, and found the mandrel
was smaller by .010, which is what causes the problem. So, this tool isn't
going to work for #6 blind threaded fastneners or rivnuts, assuming that
both are sized to hold a real #6 screw. But, the #8s, which is what I
really
needed, worked fine. Ahh, the joys of "bargain-priced" tools...

Henry Bibb


"mike" wrote in message
news:kgilb.835925$YN5.926388@sccrnsc01...
it may be. The anvil in all the tools Ihave seen is made of a very hard,
high-grade tool steel.
I cant see the anvil stretching if thats what you are saying.