Why fly fast approaches?

I did my BFR last month in a PA28-181. It is an airplane new to the
flying club I belong to and although I have more than 60 hours in type,
the owner requires anyone who desires to rent it, have an instructor
checkout.

Prior to the flight I calculated a weight and balance and appropriate
speeds for the actual takeoff and landing weights.

I started to pull for takeoff at the calculated speed and the
instructor said, "No, no, wait until 65 kts."
Okay.

For the first landing, I stated the calculated 1.5Vso and 1.3Vso speeds.
The instructor again said, "No, no, that's too slow. Use 75 kts."

When we were on the ground, I asked him why he wanted the faster speeds.
His answer was that this was not a new airplane, so the book values
needed to be increased to allow for age related things that could
affect the noted V-speeds.

I can understand the reasoning for a student pilot, the likes of which
this instructor does a lot of training with, but I am 1200+ and over 20
years of flying. I am thinking in terms of performance as would apply
to the Commercial standards. Hence, the reason for calculating the
necessary speeds prior to flight.

I will add that flying at the instructor's recommended speeds leads to
float in the roundout and required more runway. Flying at the
calculated speeds would have resulted in a full stall landing at the
threshhold and clearing at the first turnoff.

What is the perspective of the instructors in this group?
The instructor I fly with knows me. Why would he not hold me to
Commercial standards?

Good landings are slow landings. It is all energy management, and his method
increases the amount of kinetic energy to be dissipated by floating, heating
the brakes, or wearing flat spots on the tires. His argument is fallacious.

Bob Gardner

"EDR" wrote in message
...
I did my BFR last month in a PA28-181. It is an airplane new to the
flying club I belong to and although I have more than 60 hours in type,
the owner requires anyone who desires to rent it, have an instructor
checkout.

Prior to the flight I calculated a weight and balance and appropriate
speeds for the actual takeoff and landing weights.

I started to pull for takeoff at the calculated speed and the
instructor said, "No, no, wait until 65 kts."
Okay.

For the first landing, I stated the calculated 1.5Vso and 1.3Vso speeds.
The instructor again said, "No, no, that's too slow. Use 75 kts."

When we were on the ground, I asked him why he wanted the faster speeds.
His answer was that this was not a new airplane, so the book values
needed to be increased to allow for age related things that could
affect the noted V-speeds.

I can understand the reasoning for a student pilot, the likes of which
this instructor does a lot of training with, but I am 1200+ and over 20
years of flying. I am thinking in terms of performance as would apply
to the Commercial standards. Hence, the reason for calculating the
necessary speeds prior to flight.

I will add that flying at the instructor's recommended speeds leads to
float in the roundout and required more runway. Flying at the
calculated speeds would have resulted in a full stall landing at the
threshhold and clearing at the first turnoff.

What is the perspective of the instructors in this group?
The instructor I fly with knows me. Why would he not hold me to
Commercial standards?

"EDR" wrote in message
...

What is the perspective of the instructors in this group?

What you did was fine.

The instructor either is used to primary students or perhaps is not
comfortable himself with the airplane at 1.3 Vso.


--------------------
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

Richard,

Well then this instructor will be really un-comfortable in my airplane.
Final is done at 70-65 MPH (61-56 Knots).
Final landing is around 55 MPH (48 knots). ;-)

Michelle

Richard Kaplan wrote:

"EDR" wrote in message
.. .

What is the perspective of the instructors in this group?

What you did was fine.

The instructor either is used to primary students or perhaps is not
comfortable himself with the airplane at 1.3 Vso.


--------------------
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com





--

Michelle P ATP-ASEL, CP-AMEL, and AMT-A&P

"Elisabeth" a Maule M-7-235B (no two are alike)

Volunteer Pilot, Angel Flight Mid-Atlantic

Volunteer Builder, Habitat for Humanity

On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 03:05:54 GMT, Michelle P
wrote:

Sorry for the "me too" post, but I approach at 60mph
and when the tires chirp onto the pavement, I'm probably
doing 40-45mph. 8^)

Bela P. Havasreti

Richard,

Well then this instructor will be really un-comfortable in my airplane.
Final is done at 70-65 MPH (61-56 Knots).
Final landing is around 55 MPH (48 knots). ;-)

Michelle

Richard Kaplan wrote:

"EDR" wrote in message
. ..

What is the perspective of the instructors in this group?

What you did was fine.

The instructor either is used to primary students or perhaps is not
comfortable himself with the airplane at 1.3 Vso.


--------------------
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

I think you pretty well identified the situation, Richard.
The instructor does a great deal of initial/primary student training.
This is the first Archer we have had in our flying club in seven years,
and he didn't begin flying with out club until after that. I don't know
what his experience was prior to that, so it may be that he is not that
familiar with the Archer. (Howerver, we do have a Cherokee Six and a
Turbo Arrow IV. I fly all these Piper's and I think there are some
cross platform similariities.)

Edr,

The instructor does a great deal of initial/primary student training.


It still doesn't make sense with primary students to fly faster,
either.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Well then this instructor will be really un-comfortable in my airplane.
Final is done at 70-65 MPH (61-56 Knots).
Final landing is around 55 MPH (48 knots). ;-)

Instructor would be very un-comfortable.
On final no more than 60 knts
Over the numbers at 40 or below.
Increase RPM to 155 just prior to touchdown.
I have a 172 Skyhawk withe the Horton stohl and a 180 HP engine.
Hank

Michelle P wrote:

Well then this instructor will be really un-comfortable in my airplane.
Final is done at 70-65 MPH (61-56 Knots).
Final landing is around 55 MPH (48 knots). ;-)

Nya - Nya! My Maule's slower than your Maule. My Maule's slower than yours! :-)

George Patterson
None of us is as dumb as all of us.

Nya - Nya! Mines a little heavier than yours. I am hauling around a 400
pound engine.
Michelle

G.R. Patterson III wrote:

Michelle P wrote:


Well then this instructor will be really un-comfortable in my airplane.
Final is done at 70-65 MPH (61-56 Knots).
Final landing is around 55 MPH (48 knots). ;-)



Nya - Nya! My Maule's slower than your Maule. My Maule's slower than yours! :-)

George Patterson
None of us is as dumb as all of us.



--

Michelle P ATP-ASEL, CP-AMEL, and AMT-A&P

"Elisabeth" a Maule M-7-235B (no two are alike)

Volunteer Pilot, Angel Flight Mid-Atlantic

Volunteer Builder, Habitat for Humanity