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#1
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Bible-beater pilots
Yesterday was clear, in the 60s (in November in Iowa!), and -- best of
all -- our day off. With the kids in school, and the plane fully fueled, it was off to...where? Prairie du Chein, sitting at the confluence of the Mississippi and Wisconsin Rivers, beckoned, with its beautiful approaches, favorable runways, and a riverboat casino that would fetch us over to their excellent lunch buffet. So, we pointed Atlas in that general direction, and puttered our way to Wisconsin at a paltry 109 knots -- we were bucking a 35 knot headwind all the way! Luckily, above 3500 feet it was smooth as a baby's bottom. Calling PDC from 10 minutes out, we asked them to call the casino's courtesy vehicle for us. To our surprise, they announced that it was "already on the way" -- apparently someone was there ahead of us, and had already made the call. After a beautiful (if bumpy) approach (thanks to the wind hitting the huge bluffs that line the river by PDC) I taxied up to the terminal, and parked next to a gorgeous blood-red Mooney. It was immaculate, and the paint really set it apart. Upon strolling inside, we discovered two older gentlemen, one of whom owned the Mooney -- evidently the folks who had called the casino. The courtesy van was already there, so we hopped in the back and all rode over together. The usual introductions were made, and standard pilot talk ensued. It turned out that the Mooney was a '67 model, and both guys were retired and in their mid-70s. One had been a Sears store manager for many years, and the other -- the owner of the Mooney -- was a successful real estate developer. The conversation flowed smoothly, and the ride went quickly. As we disembarked from the van, we bid them adieu and went our separate ways. In the buffet line, we ran into them again. While I was filling my salad bowl, the old Sears manager asked me if we cared to join them for lunch? Since we were sans kids, and they were mighty nice company, Mary and I allowed that joining them was a grand idea, and proceeded to confuse the wait staff by moving our beverages across the room to their table. Once we were all seated with our food, the real estate guy announced that it was their habit to pray before meals, and asked if we might join them. I frankly found this a bit odd, in a casino buffet, but to be polite we affirmed the idea and bowed our heads while the Sears guy recited a prayer about safe flying and good eating. Mary and I exchanged the old "uh-oh" glance, but we still hoped that things would progress normally. It was not to be. As lunch proceeded, we began discussing Iowa City, and how terrific the school system was, and they guided the conversation uncomfortably into what church we attended with our kids. Mary struggled bravely to answer that question in a way that wouldn't offend these obviously religious men, but there was simply no way to hide the fact that we didn't take them to ANY church. I then proceeded to explain that we had both been raised hyper-Catholic, and had been bludgeoned to death with our heavy-handed religious upbringings. We were going to let our children decide their religion when they reached the age of reason. This was a mistake. I might as well have tossed blood into shark-infested waters. The next question, after a pause, was from the Sears guy, asking whether we had Gideon bibles in our hotel suites. I chuckled, and allowed that we did. I then went on to say how we'd even seen some competition amongst the various religious sects in town, with the Mormons trying to get us to put their "Book of Mormon" texts in all the suites, too. Still chuckling, I remarked that we had to draw the line somewhere, or we'd have to put the Koran and the Hindu texts in the suites, too. This was another mistake. The Sears guy turned out to be a Gideon, and he didn't warm to the notion that I was equating his King James Bible with the Koran. Soon, both men were quoting scripture to us, chapter and verse, "proving" how "easy" it was to be "saved" by the "true Lord, Jesus", as opposed to the heathen gods of the other religions. By now we were both growing incredibly uncomfortable, and I had that horrible "this must be a nightmare" feeling rising in the pit of my stomach. Not knowing whether to bolt or tell them to f*ck off, I just sat there silently, dumbly smiling at them in disbelief. Then the Sears guy asked me if I knew how "truly easy" it was to be "saved"? I replied, quite honestly, "no". (ANOTHER mistake!) He then told me that I didn't have to close my eyes, nor did I even have to be in church -- I only had to say the following prayer along with him, giving myself over to Jesus Christ. He then asked, directly, "Would I be willing to say this little prayer aloud with him?" The heat in my face was really rising now, and I felt like everyone in that casino was staring DIRECTLY at the back of my head. What could I say to someone so earnest, yet so incredibly rude? I smiled, placed my hand firmly on his shoulder, and told him that I most certainly was NOT going to pray with him in a casino. I then went back to eating, trying to think of some way -- ANY way -- to escape this insane situation. Mary finally came up with the answer -- she bolted, and went to the bathroom! Abandoned, I was a helpless target for their religious zeal, and felt myself being carried along by their verbal diarrhea. There was simply no escape, and I politely listened while they explained to me everything from everlasting salvation, to the tax advantages of tithing 20% of my income to the church... At last Mary returned, and announced that we were late to get back to pick up the kids from school. Never had I been so grateful for bad news in my life, and I quickly jumped up, shook both their hands, thanked them for an "interesting" lunch, and headed toward the door, on the double. Feeling like I'd just been delivered from the Gates of Hell, we told the driver (the same guy who had picked us up) about the two bible-beater pilots. He was as dumb-founded as we were, and apologized profusely, as if he had just forced us to eat lunch with a couple of sloppy drunks. He allowed that their kind was exceedingly rare at the casino -- an observation that made us laugh out loud. We then warned him to keep his mouth shut when he gave them a ride back, or risk wasting the entire afternoon, which got him chuckling -- until his radio crackled to life, and the dispatcher announced that he had "Two more to go back to the airport" when he got back. His face fell as he knew that deliverance would not be his today... Then it was *our* turn to laugh! Our flight home was fast (175 knots, thanks to that tail wind) and uneventful, but our lunch had been completely ruined, and we could only shake our heads in wonder at the audacity of these men. The gall and sheer tastelessness of their behavior had us recounting every detail of the experience all the way home, as if we had just witnessed a train wreck. We realized (with a shudder) that these men were only one or two steps removed from the Islamo-Fascists we are currently fighting in the Middle East, the only difference being their hair style and their dogma. Until yesterday I had run into religious fanatics and cult followers in every walk of life EXCEPT aviation. I guess I had assumed that anyone smart enough to get their pilot's certificate couldn't be so gullible -- and rude -- as to go around trying to "save" perfect strangers. I still have a hard time believing that it wasn't some sort of a "Candid Camera" set up, but I'm afraid they really, honestly thought they were doing the right thing. Anyone ever run into this before? What did you do? -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" |
#2
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"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:Wwfvb.262377$Fm2.278122@attbi_s04... Yesterday was clear, in the 60s (in November in Iowa!), and -- best of all -- our day off. With the kids in school, and the plane fully fueled, it was off to...where? Prairie du Chein, sitting at the confluence of the Mississippi and Wisconsin Rivers, beckoned, with its beautiful approaches, favorable runways, and a riverboat casino that would fetch us over to their excellent lunch buffet. So, we pointed Atlas in that general direction, and puttered our way to Wisconsin at a paltry 109 knots -- we were bucking a 35 knot headwind all the way! Luckily, above 3500 feet it was smooth as a baby's bottom. Calling PDC from 10 minutes out, we asked them to call the casino's courtesy vehicle for us. To our surprise, they announced that it was "already on the way" -- apparently someone was there ahead of us, and had already made the call. After a beautiful (if bumpy) approach (thanks to the wind hitting the huge bluffs that line the river by PDC) I taxied up to the terminal, and parked next to a gorgeous blood-red Mooney. It was immaculate, and the paint really set it apart. Upon strolling inside, we discovered two older gentlemen, one of whom owned the Mooney -- evidently the folks who had called the casino. The courtesy van was already there, so we hopped in the back and all rode over together. The usual introductions were made, and standard pilot talk ensued. It turned out that the Mooney was a '67 model, and both guys were retired and in their mid-70s. One had been a Sears store manager for many years, and the other -- the owner of the Mooney -- was a successful real estate developer. The conversation flowed smoothly, and the ride went quickly. As we disembarked from the van, we bid them adieu and went our separate ways. In the buffet line, we ran into them again. While I was filling my salad bowl, the old Sears manager asked me if we cared to join them for lunch? Since we were sans kids, and they were mighty nice company, Mary and I allowed that joining them was a grand idea, and proceeded to confuse the wait staff by moving our beverages across the room to their table. Once we were all seated with our food, the real estate guy announced that it was their habit to pray before meals, and asked if we might join them. I frankly found this a bit odd, in a casino buffet, but to be polite we affirmed the idea and bowed our heads while the Sears guy recited a prayer about safe flying and good eating. Mary and I exchanged the old "uh-oh" glance, but we still hoped that things would progress normally. It was not to be. As lunch proceeded, we began discussing Iowa City, and how terrific the school system was, and they guided the conversation uncomfortably into what church we attended with our kids. Mary struggled bravely to answer that question in a way that wouldn't offend these obviously religious men, but there was simply no way to hide the fact that we didn't take them to ANY church. I then proceeded to explain that we had both been raised hyper-Catholic, and had been bludgeoned to death with our heavy-handed religious upbringings. We were going to let our children decide their religion when they reached the age of reason. This was a mistake. I might as well have tossed blood into shark-infested waters. The next question, after a pause, was from the Sears guy, asking whether we had Gideon bibles in our hotel suites. I chuckled, and allowed that we did. I then went on to say how we'd even seen some competition amongst the various religious sects in town, with the Mormons trying to get us to put their "Book of Mormon" texts in all the suites, too. Still chuckling, I remarked that we had to draw the line somewhere, or we'd have to put the Koran and the Hindu texts in the suites, too. This was another mistake. The Sears guy turned out to be a Gideon, and he didn't warm to the notion that I was equating his King James Bible with the Koran. Soon, both men were quoting scripture to us, chapter and verse, "proving" how "easy" it was to be "saved" by the "true Lord, Jesus", as opposed to the heathen gods of the other religions. By now we were both growing incredibly uncomfortable, and I had that horrible "this must be a nightmare" feeling rising in the pit of my stomach. Not knowing whether to bolt or tell them to f*ck off, I just sat there silently, dumbly smiling at them in disbelief. Then the Sears guy asked me if I knew how "truly easy" it was to be "saved"? I replied, quite honestly, "no". (ANOTHER mistake!) He then told me that I didn't have to close my eyes, nor did I even have to be in church -- I only had to say the following prayer along with him, giving myself over to Jesus Christ. He then asked, directly, "Would I be willing to say this little prayer aloud with him?" The heat in my face was really rising now, and I felt like everyone in that casino was staring DIRECTLY at the back of my head. What could I say to someone so earnest, yet so incredibly rude? I smiled, placed my hand firmly on his shoulder, and told him that I most certainly was NOT going to pray with him in a casino. I then went back to eating, trying to think of some way -- ANY way -- to escape this insane situation. Mary finally came up with the answer -- she bolted, and went to the bathroom! Abandoned, I was a helpless target for their religious zeal, and felt myself being carried along by their verbal diarrhea. There was simply no escape, and I politely listened while they explained to me everything from everlasting salvation, to the tax advantages of tithing 20% of my income to the church... At last Mary returned, and announced that we were late to get back to pick up the kids from school. Never had I been so grateful for bad news in my life, and I quickly jumped up, shook both their hands, thanked them for an "interesting" lunch, and headed toward the door, on the double. Feeling like I'd just been delivered from the Gates of Hell, we told the driver (the same guy who had picked us up) about the two bible-beater pilots. He was as dumb-founded as we were, and apologized profusely, as if he had just forced us to eat lunch with a couple of sloppy drunks. He allowed that their kind was exceedingly rare at the casino -- an observation that made us laugh out loud. We then warned him to keep his mouth shut when he gave them a ride back, or risk wasting the entire afternoon, which got him chuckling -- until his radio crackled to life, and the dispatcher announced that he had "Two more to go back to the airport" when he got back. His face fell as he knew that deliverance would not be his today... Then it was *our* turn to laugh! Our flight home was fast (175 knots, thanks to that tail wind) and uneventful, but our lunch had been completely ruined, and we could only shake our heads in wonder at the audacity of these men. The gall and sheer tastelessness of their behavior had us recounting every detail of the experience all the way home, as if we had just witnessed a train wreck. We realized (with a shudder) that these men were only one or two steps removed from the Islamo-Fascists we are currently fighting in the Middle East, the only difference being their hair style and their dogma. Until yesterday I had run into religious fanatics and cult followers in every walk of life EXCEPT aviation. I guess I had assumed that anyone smart enough to get their pilot's certificate couldn't be so gullible -- and rude -- as to go around trying to "save" perfect strangers. I still have a hard time believing that it wasn't some sort of a "Candid Camera" set up, but I'm afraid they really, honestly thought they were doing the right thing. Anyone ever run into this before? What did you do? -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" Did ya get their N number? If so I'll paint it on the ramp at PDC with a warning next time we are there. Wonder what they would have said had you questioned them about being in a casino? |
#3
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Anyone ever run into this before? What did you do?
All you had to do was get up and leave instead of agonizing over the politeness of how to exit. Nobody forced you to sit there and listen to it. It's clear you and your family have no moral guidance. I can see how being raised a Catholic has got you out of tune with God, that's pretty common. Sure, faith is a personal thing, but we're also commanded to spread the good news. Tell others. That's what they were doing. You make it sound like you were trapped because it makes them sound evil and you appear a victim and we'll feel sorry for you. It's real funny to laugh at the apparent hypocrites who want to tell you something important while sitting in a casino. Well they are as imperfect as the rest of us. Who knows - maybe they go to the casino just to evangelize because they know there are people there like you who need to hear it. It's the message that's important, not the person delivering it. Your rejection of the message does not diminish its truth. Feel free to continue denying God, it is obviously your choice. It is your unalienable right in this great country to have whatever religion you want, including none at all. When you're standing at the final judgement you're going to feel pretty silly remembering how you should have listened, believed, acted, and provided some leadership to your family in this most important area of their lives. Are you going to teach your children about Jesus or let them wander in apathy ? So far, you are lost. If you think your own inner self, your conscience, your innate sense of right and wrong should be your guide, if you think its enough just to be a good person, then you've got it all backwards. Your prolific newsgroup posting over the last several years now has provided some interesting insight into your personality. We know what you look like, where you live, what you like to do, where you like to go, how you earn a living. Isn't it time you quit worshipping the Pathfinder parked out back and sought out some real meaning to why you're here ? Some real guidance in your life ? Pick up the Bible and take another look. That's the real POH. It's especially hard for smart, successful people like yourself to believe that they need Jesus because it makes them accept the fact that they are inadequate and incomplete without Him. Well get used to that concept. From the janitor to the CEO and from the gambler to the hotel owner, that is exactly what we all need. The only difference is in how long it takes each of us to figure it out and make the single most important decision your entire life. To accept Jesus or reject him. It's just between you and Him, nobody else. What is it going to be ? |
#4
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Jay apparently one of them has followed you back here. The bible is the
real POH. I looked but couldn't find the weight and balance section. Give me a break. "Ian" wrote in message ... Anyone ever run into this before? What did you do? All you had to do was get up and leave instead of agonizing over the politeness of how to exit. Nobody forced you to sit there and listen to it. It's clear you and your family have no moral guidance. I can see how being raised a Catholic has got you out of tune with God, that's pretty common. Sure, faith is a personal thing, but we're also commanded to spread the good news. Tell others. That's what they were doing. You make it sound like you were trapped because it makes them sound evil and you appear a victim and we'll feel sorry for you. It's real funny to laugh at the apparent hypocrites who want to tell you something important while sitting in a casino. Well they are as imperfect as the rest of us. Who knows - maybe they go to the casino just to evangelize because they know there are people there like you who need to hear it. It's the message that's important, not the person delivering it. Your rejection of the message does not diminish its truth. Feel free to continue denying God, it is obviously your choice. It is your unalienable right in this great country to have whatever religion you want, including none at all. When you're standing at the final judgement you're going to feel pretty silly remembering how you should have listened, believed, acted, and provided some leadership to your family in this most important area of their lives. Are you going to teach your children about Jesus or let them wander in apathy ? So far, you are lost. If you think your own inner self, your conscience, your innate sense of right and wrong should be your guide, if you think its enough just to be a good person, then you've got it all backwards. Your prolific newsgroup posting over the last several years now has provided some interesting insight into your personality. We know what you look like, where you live, what you like to do, where you like to go, how you earn a living. Isn't it time you quit worshipping the Pathfinder parked out back and sought out some real meaning to why you're here ? Some real guidance in your life ? Pick up the Bible and take another look. That's the real POH. It's especially hard for smart, successful people like yourself to believe that they need Jesus because it makes them accept the fact that they are inadequate and incomplete without Him. Well get used to that concept. From the janitor to the CEO and from the gambler to the hotel owner, that is exactly what we all need. The only difference is in how long it takes each of us to figure it out and make the single most important decision your entire life. To accept Jesus or reject him. It's just between you and Him, nobody else. What is it going to be ? |
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("Yossarian" wrote)
real POH. I looked but couldn't find the weight and balance section. Give me a break. Prety level headed volley - well thought out presentation of his point of view. I liked Ian's post. "Isn't it time you quit worshipping the Pathfinder parked out back..." That was almost Marty, Marty, Marty funny. g Now, whether I agree with Ian, or not, is another matter. -- Montblack |
#6
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Montblack wrote:
"Isn't it time you quit worshipping the Pathfinder parked out back..." That was almost Marty, Marty, Marty funny. g I think it poor taste in an aviation group to discuss Pathfinder worship. - Andrew |
#7
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"Ian" wrote in message
It's clear you and your family have no moral guidance. ...there are people there like you who need to hear it. ...Your rejection of the message does not diminish its truth. ...So far, you are lost. If you think your own inner self, your conscience, your innate sense of right and wrong should be your guide, if you think its enough just to be a good person, then you've got it all backwards. Isn't it time you quit worshipping the Pathfinder parked out back and sought out some real meaning to why you're here ? Some real guidance in your life ? ...The only difference is in how long it takes each of us to figure it out and make the single most important decision your entire life. To accept Jesus or reject him. No moral guidance? Needs to hear the message? Truth? Lost? Got it backwards? Worshiping the plane? Real guidance? Most important decision? Wow. Just out of curiosity: What puts you in a position to judge his moral guidance (or lack thereof)? I suppose you'll say that Christian morality is the only correct morality, right? Why does he *need* to hear the message? I suppose you like the idea of email spam, too. After all, one has only to determine that we *need* to hear the message to make it acceptable, right? How do you account for the billions of "souls" who are not Christian yet seem to live good lives? (By "good" I mean doing things that Christians claim to do like charity, treating others with respect, living by their version of the Ten Commandments.) Tell me again how many people have died in wars based on nothing but religion? Christianity isn't the only game in town - and the other leagues have some pretty solid players, too. -- Lenny Toulson |
#8
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Lenny,
Tell me again how many people have died in wars based on nothing but religion? That was the case in the vast majority of wars, I would say. Of course, in most, religion was just a cover for power mongering - but that seems to be common in religion anyway. -- Thomas Borchert (EDDH) |
#9
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On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:00:56 +0100, Thomas Borchert
wrote: That was the case in the vast majority of wars, I would say. Of course, in most, religion was just a cover for power mongering - but that seems to be common in religion anyway. Given that power mongering exists with or without religion (unless the last 100 years of secular democracies descending into fascist or communist dictatorships is supposed to be set aside?), it seems particularly fallacious to suppose that because many religions contain power mongerers, that it is the cause of the belief system that they monger power. Rob -- [You] don't make your kids P.C.-proof by keeping them ignorant, you do it by helping them learn how to educate themselves. -- Orson Scott Card |
#10
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On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 06:54:32 GMT, "Lenny Toulson"
wrote: Tell me again how many people have died in wars based on nothing but religion? People have died in wars based on nothing but human avarice, with religion as the dressing to break down a person's natural inclination not to kill for the first time. Let's not go and blame religion when other factors, usually condemned by religious belief systems, are more operative. To do so would be insignificant cause fallacies. Fights and wars have broken out over things other than religion, and no society goes to war for that reason alone. It's too much work! Rob -- [You] don't make your kids P.C.-proof by keeping them ignorant, you do it by helping them learn how to educate themselves. -- Orson Scott Card |
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