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#1
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F-14 vs. F-15 accel.
Any of you Turkey drivers (let's say A or B) ever have a
drag race with an F-15, or compare Dash-1/NATOPS and see which one had better 1g Ps? I was just wondering which could out-accelerate the other assuming similar configuration Let's say air superiority with 8 missiles, or else both clean). Assuming a subsonic start I'd expect the F-15A to take the lead initially, but then once it hits transonic and the Tom's wings start to go back, I'd think the latter might pull even or ahead. Any opinions based on practical experience out there? Guy |
#2
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Any of you Turkey drivers (let's say A or B) ever have a
drag race with an F-15, or compare Dash-1/NATOPS and see which one had better 1g Ps? I was just wondering which could out-accelerate the other assuming similar BRBR I would say the F-15 would beat an 'A' but would lose to a 'B', 'D' model. The wings on the F-14 start back way before transonic, besides, If I was racing I'd manual aft/airsource off as sonn as I went to AB. I have chased down an F-15 in a A-4F+ tho, made him turn and then spanked him pretty bad. Low-ish, slow, The F-15 isn't great in that arena. P. C. Chisholm CDR, USN(ret.) Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer |
#3
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According the diagrams, the F14A was superior in the 1.6+ regime. Of
course, by then the Eagull was about two miles in front in a drag race. F-15 enjoyed a fairly significant PsubS anywhere one might choose to fight in the real world. Then again, nobody killed nobody with PsubS. R / John "Guy Alcala" wrote in message . .. Any of you Turkey drivers (let's say A or B) ever have a drag race with an F-15, or compare Dash-1/NATOPS and see which one had better 1g Ps? I was just wondering which could out-accelerate the other assuming similar configuration Let's say air superiority with 8 missiles, or else both clean). Assuming a subsonic start I'd expect the F-15A to take the lead initially, but then once it hits transonic and the Tom's wings start to go back, I'd think the latter might pull even or ahead. Any opinions based on practical experience out there? Guy |
#4
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John Carrier wrote:
According the diagrams, the F14A was superior in the 1.6+ regime. Of course, by then the Eagull was about two miles in front in a drag race. F-15 enjoyed a fairly significant PsubS anywhere one might choose to fight in the real world. Then again, nobody killed nobody with PsubS. My thanks to you and Pechs. My question was based around the Iraqi bugout to Iran in DS, when F-15s were sometimes unable to close into AIM-7 range in a tail chase of Iraqis at high Q on the deck (I've seen claims of 700 kts for some, probably MiG-23s or Fitters, with F-15s firing AIM-7s at 650KCAS @ 12,000 feet). Any opinions on whether the F-14 or F-15 had better endurance at say M1.2-1.4 @ ca. 12kft, once they accelerated to that speed? I figure the AIM-54 would give them a fair range advantage tail-on, but whether it was enough to overcome the slower accel due to the drag of carrying a couple, I don't know. Guy |
#5
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"Guy Alcala" wrote in message . .. John Carrier wrote: According the diagrams, the F14A was superior in the 1.6+ regime. Of course, by then the Eagull was about two miles in front in a drag race. F-15 enjoyed a fairly significant PsubS anywhere one might choose to fight in the real world. Then again, nobody killed nobody with PsubS. My thanks to you and Pechs. My question was based around the Iraqi bugout to Iran in DS, when F-15s were sometimes unable to close into AIM-7 range in a tail chase of Iraqis at high Q on the deck (I've seen claims of 700 kts for some, probably MiG-23s or Fitters, with F-15s firing AIM-7s at 650KCAS @ 12,000 feet). Any opinions on whether the F-14 or F-15 had better endurance at say M1.2-1.4 @ ca. 12kft, once they accelerated to that speed? I figure the AIM-54 would give them a fair range advantage tail-on, but whether it was enough to overcome the slower accel due to the drag of carrying a couple, I don't know. 650??? I've had F-8's, F-4's and F-14's all faster. The Turkey is a legitimate 800 knot airplane down low. As to 1.2-1.4 supersonic endurance, the Turkey hands down. OTOH, Buffaloes are never a good weapon for fighter vs fighter, even in a tail chase. R / John |
#6
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I'm curious as to why they wouldn't be good in a tail chase given that there
wouldn't be any noticeable change in the RWR until the very end? Certainly, they ought to have more energy/range than most other AAM. And for the record, other than their weight/drag, why are they called Buffaloes? I've heard that someone thought they looked like a Buffalo coming off the rail, but either that person has never seen a buffalo, or the vision requirements were SERIOUSLY relaxed for that individual. While I've got a John (I can never remember which John flew the -14), how did it perform a-a against the Eagle in BFM? I've heard some sources say the Eagle is nigh-invincible in the high speed dogfight (even compared to the Viper), while other sources (Tomcat drivers) tell me that a -14A is a good match, while a -14B/D is just cruel to the Eagle driver. Any comments? I know that this is an awful newbie question, and I know that air under the ass counts for most, but I'm curious to get a general opinion about how close they are (actually, how close are all the teen series?). Cheers, Tony 650??? I've had F-8's, F-4's and F-14's all faster. The Turkey is a legitimate 800 knot airplane down low. As to 1.2-1.4 supersonic endurance, the Turkey hands down. OTOH, Buffaloes are never a good weapon for fighter vs fighter, even in a tail chase. R / John |
#7
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Tony- how
did it perform a-a against the Eagle in BFM? I've heard some sources say the Eagle is nigh-invincible in the high speed dogfight (even compared to the Viper), while other sources (Tomcat drivers) tell me that a -14A is a good match, while a -14B/D is just cruel to the Eagle driver. Any comments? BRBR I say-Since the F-15 had a hard wing, no manuvering devices, high altitude and high speed, it was very good but if you got it lower and slower, in the 10,000 feet arena and 200 or so kts, you could beat it up pretty good. The big problem with the F-14 was aft wing sweep at high altitudes, even at slowish speeds..which made it very piggy. P. C. Chisholm CDR, USN(ret.) Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer |
#8
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IIRC, the Eagles were flying with 3 tanks (retained) and (obviously) a
combat load. "John Carrier" wrote in message ... "Guy Alcala" wrote in message . .. John Carrier wrote: According the diagrams, the F14A was superior in the 1.6+ regime. Of course, by then the Eagull was about two miles in front in a drag race. F-15 enjoyed a fairly significant PsubS anywhere one might choose to fight in the real world. Then again, nobody killed nobody with PsubS. My thanks to you and Pechs. My question was based around the Iraqi bugout to Iran in DS, when F-15s were sometimes unable to close into AIM-7 range in a tail chase of Iraqis at high Q on the deck (I've seen claims of 700 kts for some, probably MiG-23s or Fitters, with F-15s firing AIM-7s at 650KCAS @ 12,000 feet). Any opinions on whether the F-14 or F-15 had better endurance at say M1.2-1.4 @ ca. 12kft, once they accelerated to that speed? I figure the AIM-54 would give them a fair range advantage tail-on, but whether it was enough to overcome the slower accel due to the drag of carrying a couple, I don't know. 650??? I've had F-8's, F-4's and F-14's all faster. The Turkey is a legitimate 800 knot airplane down low. As to 1.2-1.4 supersonic endurance, the Turkey hands down. OTOH, Buffaloes are never a good weapon for fighter vs fighter, even in a tail chase. R / John |
#9
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Frijoles wrote:
IIRC, the Eagles were flying with 3 tanks (retained) and (obviously) a combat load. The tanks were punched, and 650 KCAS or so was apparently enough to get them in the envelope. Although ISTR being told that the F-15 has never gotten within a mile of its 800KCAS limit in level flight. 730KCAS or so on the deck is floating around in my memory, but don't put a lot of weight on that in this case. Guy |
#10
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John Carrier wrote:
"Guy Alcala" wrote in message . .. snip My thanks to you and Pechs. My question was based around the Iraqi bugout to Iran in DS, when F-15s were sometimes unable to close into AIM-7 range in a tail chase of Iraqis at high Q on the deck (I've seen claims of 700 kts for some, probably MiG-23s or Fitters, with F-15s firing AIM-7s at 650KCAS @ 12,000 feet). Any opinions on whether the F-14 or F-15 had better endurance at say M1.2-1.4 @ ca. 12kft, once they accelerated to that speed? I figure the AIM-54 would give them a fair range advantage tail-on, but whether it was enough to overcome the slower accel due to the drag of carrying a couple, I don't know. 650??? I've had F-8's, F-4's and F-14's all faster. The Turkey is a legitimate 800 knot airplane down low. As to 1.2-1.4 supersonic endurance, the Turkey hands down. OTOH, Buffaloes are never a good weapon for fighter vs fighter, even in a tail chase. Thanks to you and everyone else for their comments. Guy |
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