Trying for a Diamond Goal tommorow - water ballast question

The forecast tommorow looks fantastic down here in Memphis! Looks
like perfect conditions to load up on water.

I have water bags in my Std. Cirrus that I have never used. Looking
at the wingroot, there is a hole that the bags are bolted to. These
bolts are easy to unscrew. This hole is appx. 1 and 3/4 inch
diameter. There is another hole about 3 inches in diameter that has a
clear plastic peice glued over it. My thought is that the water bags
are pushed into the wing through the smaller hole, then get pulled out
through the bigger hole. I don't want to just cut the clear plastic
peice off unless somebody can verify that it is indeed what the
plastic peice if for, or explain another way to test the bags for a
leak other than just pulling the bag completely out for a test.

My guess is that the clear plastic peice is for sealing. The cirrus
wasn't designed with bags, it was designed with fiberglass water
tanks. The water ballast bags are an aftermarket addition.

Thanks in advance,
Scott

Anyone have any experience?

Scott,

XF still uses the original fiberglass bays to hold the water. I
filled them once in my yard and they seemed to hold the water well. I
am afraid you may have a "one off" system that someone engineered on
their on. Are you going to Cordele?

Lane

On Apr 27, 4:09*pm, Scott Alexander
wrote:
The forecast tommorow looks fantastic down here in Memphis! *Looks
like perfect conditions to load up on water.

I have water bags in my Std. Cirrus that I have never used. * Looking
at the wingroot, there is a hole that the bags are bolted to. *These
bolts are easy to unscrew. *This hole is appx. 1 and 3/4 inch
diameter. *There is another hole about 3 inches in diameter that has a
clear plastic peice glued over it. *My thought is that the water bags
are pushed into the wing through the smaller hole, then get pulled out
through the bigger hole. *I don't want to just cut the clear plastic
peice off unless somebody can verify that it is indeed what the
plastic peice if for, or explain another way to test the bags for a
leak other than just pulling the bag completely out for a test.

My guess is that the clear plastic peice is for sealing. *The cirrus
wasn't designed with bags, it was designed with fiberglass water
tanks. *The water ballast bags are an aftermarket addition.

Thanks in advance,
Scott

Anyone have any experience?

No experience here with carrying water but I'd think that a Diamond
Goal flight wouldn't really be the time where I'd want to be learning
how to fly with ballast.

On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 14:28:12 -0700, Tony wrote:

No experience here with carrying water but I'd think that a Diamond Goal
flight wouldn't really be the time where I'd want to be learning how to
fly with ballast.

I must say I'd agree with that, if only because under reasonable
conditions you'll only be on task around 5 hours flying dry. If the day
is as good as you think you don't need to go faster: 5 hours for 300 km
is 59 kph, 32 kts average speed.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Apr 27, 5:09*pm, Scott Alexander
wrote:
The forecast tommorow looks fantastic down here in Memphis! *Looks
like perfect conditions to load up on water.

Water for a badge flight? Maybe for a 750K diplome or better. But
you certainly don't need it for 300K. Kids these days :-)!

-T8

On Apr 27, 5:36*pm, T8 wrote:
On Apr 27, 5:09*pm, Scott Alexander
wrote:

The forecast tommorow looks fantastic down here in Memphis! *Looks
like perfect conditions to load up on water.

Water for a badge flight? *Maybe for a 750K diplome or better. *But
you certainly don't need it for 300K. *Kids these days :-)!

-T8

Further on that thought -- spend your time reading the rules instead
of dinking around with plumbing. You'll be glad you did.

-T8

On Apr 27, 2:09*pm, Scott Alexander
wrote:
The forecast tommorow looks fantastic down here in Memphis! *Looks
like perfect conditions to load up on water.

I have water bags in my Std. Cirrus that I have never used... *

My advice is to forget about ballast and concentrate on preparing for
your flight. Leave the ballast for another day when you have time to
work through all the issues.

Figuring out how to get the water into the wings, validating that you
got the right amount in, validating that you can get it all out in a
reasonable time, making sure that there are no leaks in the system,
and getting used to the ballasted handling are things that can absorb
days and sometimes weeks of time.

It could be that you get lucky, that your bags fit properly, don't
take you over gross, don't leak, and that the dump plumbing works
properly and doesn't leak. And it might be that you quickly adapt to
the different handling and that it doesn't throw off your thermalling
and decision making. And it might be that your filling system works as
expected and you get all the air out of the bags and the right amount
of water in. I can see that all happening. But the odds are well under
100%, and any issues that arise will take up a bunch of time and
attention, and cause stress and worry that will distract you from what
you are really trying to accomplish.

Regardless of what you decide, good luck for a great flight!

Thanks, Bob K.

On Apr 27, 2:09*pm, Scott Alexander
wrote:
The forecast tommorow looks fantastic down here in Memphis! *Looks
like perfect conditions to load up on water.

My guess is that the clear plastic peice is for sealing. *The cirrus
wasn't designed with bags, it was designed with fiberglass water
tanks. *The water ballast bags are an aftermarket addition.

No experience with this particular installation but many years
expeience with bags. If both the holes you describe are in the part
of the root rib that closes the D tube then my guess is that the bags
are fed in the large hole and then the fill/dump tube is brought out
through the small hole. Explanation obviously wrong if the dump ports
are in the wings not the fuselage.

I doubt there are many ballast bag installations that remained exactly
as the factory intended. I consider adding piccolo pipes an almost
essential modification. No one who ever experienced a pinched off bag
failing to dump would ague with this.

Figuring this out and testing the system is probably not the best use
of the few hours you have before your flight attempt.

Andy

I too would suggest that you do the flight without the
distractions of using your water ballast the for Diamond
Goal flight.
If the weather is going to be good enough for the flight,
you can do it without water. You will just fly a little
slower. I hope that you have a great flight!

Randy

Tulsa, OK

http://talihinasoaring.com/
http://www.standardcirrus.org/

On Apr 27, 5:09*pm, Scott Alexander
wrote:
The forecast tommorow looks fantastic down here in Memphis! *Looks
like perfect conditions to load up on water.

I have water bags in my Std. Cirrus that I have never used. * Looking
at the wingroot, there is a hole that the bags are bolted to. *These
bolts are easy to unscrew. *This hole is appx. 1 and 3/4 inch
diameter. *There is another hole about 3 inches in diameter that has a
clear plastic peice glued over it. *My thought is that the water bags
are pushed into the wing through the smaller hole, then get pulled out
through the bigger hole. *I don't want to just cut the clear plastic
peice off unless somebody can verify that it is indeed what the
plastic peice if for, or explain another way to test the bags for a
leak other than just pulling the bag completely out for a test.

My guess is that the clear plastic peice is for sealing. *The cirrus
wasn't designed with bags, it was designed with fiberglass water
tanks. *The water ballast bags are an aftermarket addition.

Thanks in advance,
Scott

Anyone have any experience?

Skip the water and pay attention to good climbs and following the
clouds.
You'll go faster,
UH