Ham Radio In The Airplane

Why not wire one ear cup for your aviation and the other cup for ham
operations? If there are no connections then you should be able to hear
both. Use a hand held mic for one or the other.
--
Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club
Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
www.bellanca-championclub.com
Actively supporting Aeroncas every day
Quarterly newsletters on time
Reasonable document reprints
1-518-731-6800

"Jim Weir" wrote in message
...
There was a question the other day about an amateur radio (or any other
two-way
radio, for that matter) aboard the airplane. At least for amateur radio
(part
97) I got an answer back from an old time FCC person who was in this
business
for a whole bunch of years. Names are omitted for reasons of privacy.

Herewith the exchange...my questions, his answers.



97.101(b) says that an amateur station aboard an aircraft must be
"...independent of all other radio equipment...".

I've been having some discussions about this, especially my PERSONAL
discussion because of what I do for a living (manufacture aircraft
electronic devices).

My interpretation of RADIO devices means that I can't run my 2-meter ham
rig
audio through a RADIO (transceiver) or use the RADIO audio to modulate
the
rig.

That is about the extent of the "separation". It's not a real
problem for most small aircraft where the aircraft (VHF) radio is AM
and the 2 meter rig is FM. Where it becomes a problem is when the
a/c is equipped with a HF rig and it gets tuned to the ham bands.
More than one ham-licensed air transport pilot has done that and
openly bragged that that's what is necessary to relieve the boredom
of flying a large plane over the ocean.

It does NOT preclude me from using my aircraft headset and microphone,
even
if that headset and microphone goes through an audio switching device
(audio
panel) to switch select between the aircraft RADIO and the ham rig.

That's how I see it as well.

As a matter of fact, it would seem to me dangerous to design a system
where
I would have to pull the headset plugs out of the aircraft radio and plug
them in to the ham rig. This, of course, prevents me from monitoring any
of
the aircraft radios while using the ham rig. Not good, especially in a
crowded environment where monitoring the aircraft radio is an item of
safety.

Agreed.

I guess the question really is where the aircraft RADIO equipment stops
and
the rest of the aircraft systems start. Battery? Audio?

The common sense definition of "the radio" would include the COMM
transceiver(s) and any NAVAID devices. Electrical and audio panels
should be excluded.



Jim



Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

When using a handheld I just connect an ear plug headset and wear it under
my normal headset.
As far as HF, I worked KJ5CB on 14.347 MHz from my mobile in Austin while he
was driving a Boeing over the Amazon.
HK3SA was aboard the Amazon Queen on the Amazon River and they even flashed
lights at each other.
Aeronautical mobiles check into the Maritime Mobile Net on 14.3 MHz
frequently.
I think the problem is connecting non-TSO'd radios to an aircraft's system,
not operating an aircraft HF radio on a ham frequency.
H.
N502TB, NQ5H

"Cy Galley" wrote in message
news:PrqNa.105458$R73.12132@sccrnsc04...
Why not wire one ear cup for your aviation and the other cup for ham
operations? If there are no connections then you should be able to hear
both. Use a hand held mic for one or the other.
--
Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club
Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
www.bellanca-championclub.com
Actively supporting Aeroncas every day
Quarterly newsletters on time
Reasonable document reprints
1-518-731-6800

"Jim Weir" wrote in message
...
There was a question the other day about an amateur radio (or any other
two-way
radio, for that matter) aboard the airplane. At least for amateur radio
(part
97) I got an answer back from an old time FCC person who was in this
business
for a whole bunch of years. Names are omitted for reasons of privacy.

Herewith the exchange...my questions, his answers.



97.101(b) says that an amateur station aboard an aircraft must be
"...independent of all other radio equipment...".

I've been having some discussions about this, especially my PERSONAL
discussion because of what I do for a living (manufacture aircraft
electronic devices).

My interpretation of RADIO devices means that I can't run my 2-meter
ham
rig
audio through a RADIO (transceiver) or use the RADIO audio to modulate
the
rig.

That is about the extent of the "separation". It's not a real
problem for most small aircraft where the aircraft (VHF) radio is AM
and the 2 meter rig is FM. Where it becomes a problem is when the
a/c is equipped with a HF rig and it gets tuned to the ham bands.
More than one ham-licensed air transport pilot has done that and
openly bragged that that's what is necessary to relieve the boredom
of flying a large plane over the ocean.

It does NOT preclude me from using my aircraft headset and microphone,
even
if that headset and microphone goes through an audio switching device
(audio
panel) to switch select between the aircraft RADIO and the ham rig.

That's how I see it as well.

As a matter of fact, it would seem to me dangerous to design a system
where
I would have to pull the headset plugs out of the aircraft radio and
plug
them in to the ham rig. This, of course, prevents me from monitoring
any
of
the aircraft radios while using the ham rig. Not good, especially in a
crowded environment where monitoring the aircraft radio is an item of
safety.

Agreed.

I guess the question really is where the aircraft RADIO equipment stops
and
the rest of the aircraft systems start. Battery? Audio?

The common sense definition of "the radio" would include the COMM
transceiver(s) and any NAVAID devices. Electrical and audio panels
should be excluded.



Jim



Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

I think the problem is connecting non-TSO'd radios to an aircraft's
system,

I wouldn't think so, since Part 91, not even the NavComs need be TSO'd.

Case in point... KX170B, not TSO'd; KX175, TSO'd (IIRC)

Paul

good point
there are ham rigs wired in with field approval IIRC
probably depends on the FSDO
H
"Paul Millner" wrote in message
...
I think the problem is connecting non-TSO'd radios to an aircraft's
system,

I wouldn't think so, since Part 91, not even the NavComs need be TSO'd.

Case in point... KX170B, not TSO'd; KX175, TSO'd (IIRC)

Paul

Aviation radios do NOT have to be TSOed. King even sold a line of non-TSOed
radios.

"H. Adam Stevens" wrote in message
...
When using a handheld I just connect an ear plug headset and wear it under
my normal headset.
As far as HF, I worked KJ5CB on 14.347 MHz from my mobile in Austin while
he
was driving a Boeing over the Amazon.
HK3SA was aboard the Amazon Queen on the Amazon River and they even
flashed
lights at each other.
Aeronautical mobiles check into the Maritime Mobile Net on 14.3 MHz
frequently.
I think the problem is connecting non-TSO'd radios to an aircraft's
system,
not operating an aircraft HF radio on a ham frequency.
H.
N502TB, NQ5H

"Cy Galley" wrote in message
news:PrqNa.105458$R73.12132@sccrnsc04...
Why not wire one ear cup for your aviation and the other cup for ham
operations? If there are no connections then you should be able to hear
both. Use a hand held mic for one or the other.
--
Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club
Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
www.bellanca-championclub.com
Actively supporting Aeroncas every day
Quarterly newsletters on time
Reasonable document reprints
1-518-731-6800

"Jim Weir" wrote in message
...
There was a question the other day about an amateur radio (or any
other
two-way
radio, for that matter) aboard the airplane. At least for amateur
radio
(part
97) I got an answer back from an old time FCC person who was in this
business
for a whole bunch of years. Names are omitted for reasons of privacy.

Herewith the exchange...my questions, his answers.



97.101(b) says that an amateur station aboard an aircraft must be
"...independent of all other radio equipment...".

I've been having some discussions about this, especially my PERSONAL
discussion because of what I do for a living (manufacture aircraft
electronic devices).

My interpretation of RADIO devices means that I can't run my 2-meter
ham
rig
audio through a RADIO (transceiver) or use the RADIO audio to
modulate
the
rig.

That is about the extent of the "separation". It's not a real
problem for most small aircraft where the aircraft (VHF) radio is AM
and the 2 meter rig is FM. Where it becomes a problem is when the
a/c is equipped with a HF rig and it gets tuned to the ham bands.
More than one ham-licensed air transport pilot has done that and
openly bragged that that's what is necessary to relieve the boredom
of flying a large plane over the ocean.

It does NOT preclude me from using my aircraft headset and
microphone,
even
if that headset and microphone goes through an audio switching device
(audio
panel) to switch select between the aircraft RADIO and the ham rig.

That's how I see it as well.

As a matter of fact, it would seem to me dangerous to design a system
where
I would have to pull the headset plugs out of the aircraft radio and
plug
them in to the ham rig. This, of course, prevents me from monitoring
any
of
the aircraft radios while using the ham rig. Not good, especially in
a
crowded environment where monitoring the aircraft radio is an item of
safety.

Agreed.

I guess the question really is where the aircraft RADIO equipment
stops
and
the rest of the aircraft systems start. Battery? Audio?

The common sense definition of "the radio" would include the COMM
transceiver(s) and any NAVAID devices. Electrical and audio panels
should be excluded.



Jim



Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

Speaking on this subject, is there a conglomeration of hams that meet
at OSH? What about freqs for the HT?

On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 17:31:17 -0700, Jim Weir wrote:

There was a question the other day about an amateur radio (or any other two-way
radio, for that matter) aboard the airplane. At least for amateur radio (part
97) I got an answer back from an old time FCC person who was in this business
for a whole bunch of years. Names are omitted for reasons of privacy.

Herewith the exchange...my questions, his answers.



97.101(b) says that an amateur station aboard an aircraft must be
"...independent of all other radio equipment...".

I've been having some discussions about this, especially my PERSONAL
discussion because of what I do for a living (manufacture aircraft
electronic devices).

My interpretation of RADIO devices means that I can't run my 2-meter ham rig
audio through a RADIO (transceiver) or use the RADIO audio to modulate the
rig.

That is about the extent of the "separation". It's not a real
problem for most small aircraft where the aircraft (VHF) radio is AM
and the 2 meter rig is FM. Where it becomes a problem is when the
a/c is equipped with a HF rig and it gets tuned to the ham bands.
More than one ham-licensed air transport pilot has done that and
openly bragged that that's what is necessary to relieve the boredom
of flying a large plane over the ocean.

It does NOT preclude me from using my aircraft headset and microphone, even
if that headset and microphone goes through an audio switching device (audio
panel) to switch select between the aircraft RADIO and the ham rig.

That's how I see it as well.

As a matter of fact, it would seem to me dangerous to design a system where
I would have to pull the headset plugs out of the aircraft radio and plug
them in to the ham rig. This, of course, prevents me from monitoring any of
the aircraft radios while using the ham rig. Not good, especially in a
crowded environment where monitoring the aircraft radio is an item of
safety.

Agreed.

I guess the question really is where the aircraft RADIO equipment stops and
the rest of the aircraft systems start. Battery? Audio?

The common sense definition of "the radio" would include the COMM
transceiver(s) and any NAVAID devices. Electrical and audio panels
should be excluded.



Jim



Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

146.52 simplex is used on the field. There aren't enuf of us back there to make
any sort of pileup. If you WANT to have a ragchew after meeting on .52, go to
..53 or .54 or...

If you want the repeater frequencies, offset, and all that good stuff, download
the Oshkosh Frequencies chart from www.rstengineering.com

Jim


Justin Case
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

-Speaking on this subject, is there a conglomeration of hams that meet
-at OSH? What about freqs for the HT?


Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

Thanks Jim, see you there.

On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 08:34:35 -0700, Jim Weir wrote:

146.52 simplex is used on the field. There aren't enuf of us back there to make
any sort of pileup. If you WANT to have a ragchew after meeting on .52, go to
.53 or .54 or...

If you want the repeater frequencies, offset, and all that good stuff, download
the Oshkosh Frequencies chart from www.rstengineering.com

Jim


Justin Case
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

-Speaking on this subject, is there a conglomeration of hams that meet
-at OSH? What about freqs for the HT?


Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 17:31:17 -0700, Jim Weir wrote:

There was a question the other day about an amateur radio (or any other two-way
radio, for that matter) aboard the airplane. At least for amateur radio (part
97) I got an answer back from an old time FCC person who was in this business
for a whole bunch of years. Names are omitted for reasons of privacy.

I think we have the same "take" in that I can mount it in the pane and
even run it through the audio panel.

I can't for the life of me imagine why some one would want to take the
audio from the aircraft rig to modulate the ham rig, or vice versa.

OTOH, I have worked both military and civilian flights on the HF bands
using both the military equipment (FB-111) and ham band equipment for
the HF aviation work...(non certified) but they were using it
transoceanic.

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 17:31:17 -0700, Jim Weir wrote:

That is about the extent of the "separation". It's not a real
problem for most small aircraft where the aircraft (VHF) radio is AM
and the 2 meter rig is FM. Where it becomes a problem is when the
a/c is equipped with a HF rig and it gets tuned to the ham bands.
More than one ham-licensed air transport pilot has done that and
openly bragged that that's what is necessary to relieve the boredom
of flying a large plane over the ocean.

Jim, when you fly with a 2m hand held, what kind of range do you get
and is it incorporated into you audio panel?


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