Glider Hours

I have seen a number of glider advertised and most tell you the total time. Unlike a powered airplane which has a tach or a Hobbs meter, gliders seldom have any built in way to determine the actually time on the air frame. While people might try to inflate their personal flying time, I would not be surprised if many of these gliders are low balling their actual air frame time which I presume has a lifetime limit in one way or another. Is there any reasonably foolproof/accurate way to determine the true time on an airframe? I cant think of one.

Walt

You could look at the rubber pad on the pedals. Wait....that's for
Buicks.
Look, Walt....gliders are like good looking women. You walk up and if
you mumble "Damn"....you're most of the way home. If the owner will
let you touch it, your intuition will guide you the rest of the way.
No one really gives a sinking ship on the number of hours as you can't
hide wear and tear easily.
Of course, if you're talking about Tin Cans....it's 'Buyer Beware". A
detail inspection is in order.
A bigger concern over hours would be damage history not entered into
the log books. A very small concern at that though.
Or the type of flying...ridge vs. thermals. Glider home port...inland
vs. marine air. Outside vs. inside.
The reference of a seller would be most telling.
R

Originally Posted by hretting

You could look at the rubber pad on the pedals. Wait....that's for
Buicks.
Look, Walt....gliders are like good looking women. You walk up and if
you mumble "Damn"....you're most of the way home. If the owner will
let you touch it, your intuition will guide you the rest of the way.
No one really gives a sinking ship on the number of hours as you can't
hide wear and tear easily.
Of course, if you're talking about Tin Cans....it's 'Buyer Beware". A
detail inspection is in order.
A bigger concern over hours would be damage history not entered into
the log books. A very small concern at that though.
Or the type of flying...ridge vs. thermals. Glider home port...inland
vs. marine air. Outside vs. inside.
The reference of a seller would be most telling.
R

Ah yes. Gliders are like good looking women. Slim and sleek with smooth, flawless skin. A great laid out, comfortable cockpit and a tail, firm and unfailing. They respond to input quickly and without hesitation. They need to be FLOWN often and well, sometimes just a pattern, or perhaps a cross country marathon. But all to often one finds that they are VERY expensive to maintain and there is always someone wanting to fly your glider, although he will never ask.

Walt

On Apr 26, 3:13*pm, Walt Connelly Walt.Connelly.
wrote:
I have seen a number of glider advertised and most tell you the total
time. *Unlike a powered airplane which has a tach or a Hobbs meter,
gliders seldom have any built in way to determine the actually time on
the air frame. *While people might try to inflate their personal flying
time, I would not be surprised if many of these gliders are low balling
their actual air frame time which I presume has a lifetime limit in one
way or another. *Is there any reasonably foolproof/accurate way to
determine the true time on an airframe? *I cant think of one.

Walt

--
Walt Connelly

All the time I have logged in my ASW-28 is supported by electronic
flight logs with a 2 second sample interval. I log my flight time and
the glider usage to the nearest minuted based on those flight logs.

Glider flight history is typically recorded as number of launches or
starts, and total flight time. If you were in the market to buy mine
I could provide complete and accurate records including all the
electronic flight logs. Do you have $80K looking for a good home?

Andy

On Apr 26, 3:13*pm, Walt Connelly Walt.Connelly.
wrote:
I have seen a number of glider advertised and most tell you the total
time. *Unlike a powered airplane which has a tach or a Hobbs meter,
gliders seldom have any built in way to determine the actually time on
the air frame. *While people might try to inflate their personal flying
time, I would not be surprised if many of these gliders are low balling
their actual air frame time which I presume has a lifetime limit in one
way or another. *Is there any reasonably foolproof/accurate way to
determine the true time on an airframe? *I cant think of one.

Walt

--
Walt Connelly

In short. No. I have kept pretty accurate records since I got my
glider, but it was 24 years old, with 5 previous owners when I got it.

Funny thing about hours and condition.

I recently sold my venerable/classic Std Cirrus.

When I purchased her there was a bit of embarrassment when it came to
hours and launches as there was no log book available for the first 12
years of her existence. So no record of flying. The owners at that
point, had estimated based on hours and launches of similar aircraft,
flown in the same club during the same period and made an educated
estimated number of hours to start their new log book off. So she had a
log showing over 2000 hours , not unusual in a 30 year old airframe.

Being a first time buyer and a gullible sort - I simply checked the
condition out very carefully, decided she was a very shiny and desirable
object and negotiated a suitable price.

A couple of years later at a regional contest one of the vintage glider
pilots drew me aside and handed over the missing logbook which he had
found in his study nearly 25 years too late. Apparently the sight of 66
- his first glass slipper - on the runway had jogged a memory...

It turns out the initial 3 owners only ever flew her for contest and
record attempts. The initial estimate of hours was completely overstated
(by nearly 1000 hours!) However - it turns out there were a number of
minor bashes and repairs that I had been blisfully unaware of.

So - log books are useful things, but condition is what really counts -
unless you are looking at metal where fatigue hours count, or wood which
is a whole different game, or are close to a time limit that has high
cost associated. For many gliders a 3000 hour inspection is not much
different from what many do as an annual. I have flown in gliders with
15,000 hours on their log that looked and felt better than much
"newer" gliders.

On 2011/04/27 5:48 AM, Grider Pirate wrote:
On Apr 26, 3:13 pm, Walt ConnellyWalt.Connelly.
wrote:
I have seen a number of glider advertised and most tell you the total
time. Unlike a powered airplane which has a tach or a Hobbs meter,
gliders seldom have any built in way to determine the actually time on
the air frame. While people might try to inflate their personal flying
time, I would not be surprised if many of these gliders are low balling
their actual air frame time which I presume has a lifetime limit in one
way or another. Is there any reasonably foolproof/accurate way to
determine the true time on an airframe? I cant think of one.

Walt

--
Walt Connelly

In short. No. I have kept pretty accurate records since I got my
glider, but it was 24 years old, with 5 previous owners when I got it.

--
Bruce Greeff
T59D #1771 & Std Cirrus #57

On Apr 26, 3:13*pm, Walt Connelly Walt.Connelly.
wrote:
I have seen a number of glider advertised and most tell you the total
time. *Unlike a powered airplane which has a tach or a Hobbs meter,
gliders seldom have any built in way to determine the actually time on
the air frame. *While people might try to inflate their personal flying
time, I would not be surprised if many of these gliders are low balling
their actual air frame time which I presume has a lifetime limit in one
way or another. *Is there any reasonably foolproof/accurate way to
determine the true time on an airframe? *I cant think of one.

Walt

--
Walt Connelly

Does sleeping in it and dreaming about a 2200 km flight count?

On Apr 26, 5:13*pm, Walt Connelly Walt.Connelly.
wrote:
I have seen a number of glider advertised and most tell you the total
time. *Unlike a powered airplane which has a tach or a Hobbs meter,
gliders seldom have any built in way to determine the actually time on
the air frame. *While people might try to inflate their personal flying
time, I would not be surprised if many of these gliders are low balling
their actual air frame time which I presume has a lifetime limit in one
way or another. *Is there any reasonably foolproof/accurate way to
determine the true time on an airframe? *I cant think of one.

Walt

--
Walt Connelly

Gliders are no different than F-4s, it's all up to the length of the
pilot's pencil...

Kirk
(who once logged a .3 flight in a F-4 that wasn't an IFE - and it
included the 5 minutes of taxi time!)

Kirk
(who once logged a .3 flight in a F-4 that wasn't an IFE - and it
included the 5 minutes of taxi time!)

Okay, there's got to be a story in that! Pardon my lack of acronym-
sense, but what is "IFE" ? (I'm thinking something Failure of
Engine).

-John
(who once crashed a simulated CF-100)

On Apr 27, 10:51*am, jsbrake wrote:
Kirk
(who once logged a .3 flight in a F-4 that wasn't an IFE - and it
included the 5 minutes of taxi time!)

Okay, there's got to be a story in that! *Pardon my lack of acronym-
sense, but what is "IFE" ? *(I'm thinking something Failure of
Engine).

-John
(who once crashed a simulated CF-100)

In Flight Emergency