E-bay airplanes

Musings..

How stupid would you have to be to buy an airplane sight-unseen at Ebay
motors? Just marginally stupid or something close to incredibly stupid?

I'm not going to do it.. but it is temping to throw a bid in there.
Russian roulette, yeah, but, heck, there's 6 cylinders in a revolver.
:-) Seriously, I'd guess it's pretty rare for somebody to really get
burned that way. Especially since any dishonesty would be grounds for a
lawsuit. But, I don't want to be one of the unlucky "few"..

Most of the ads on there that I've seen (haven't looked recently) included
right to a complete pre-buy inspection. The seller only wanted an escrow
deposit to prove good-faith on the part of the buyer.

I probably won't use that means, but I think it might really be worth
considering if you have the time and contacts to keep yourself protected.

--
Jim Carter
Seen on a bumper sticker:
If you can read this, thank a teacher
If you can read this in English, thank a soldier.


"Paul Folbrecht" wrote in message
hlink.net...
Musings..

How stupid would you have to be to buy an airplane sight-unseen at Ebay
motors? Just marginally stupid or something close to incredibly stupid?

I'm not going to do it.. but it is temping to throw a bid in there.
Russian roulette, yeah, but, heck, there's 6 cylinders in a revolver.
:-) Seriously, I'd guess it's pretty rare for somebody to really get
burned that way. Especially since any dishonesty would be grounds for a
lawsuit. But, I don't want to be one of the unlucky "few"..

There have been quite a few that have been relisted several times. I have
also read some stories about airplanes with "histories" that appear on eBay.
I must admit though, I look at them frequently, along with the Yak 52s and
AN 2s in Russia but haven't had the courage to go any further.


"Jim Carter" wrote in message
. com...
Most of the ads on there that I've seen (haven't looked recently) included
right to a complete pre-buy inspection. The seller only wanted an escrow
deposit to prove good-faith on the part of the buyer.

I probably won't use that means, but I think it might really be worth
considering if you have the time and contacts to keep yourself protected.

--
Jim Carter
Seen on a bumper sticker:
If you can read this, thank a teacher
If you can read this in English, thank a soldier.


"Paul Folbrecht" wrote in message
hlink.net...
Musings..

How stupid would you have to be to buy an airplane sight-unseen at Ebay
motors? Just marginally stupid or something close to incredibly stupid?

I'm not going to do it.. but it is temping to throw a bid in there.
Russian roulette, yeah, but, heck, there's 6 cylinders in a revolver.
:-) Seriously, I'd guess it's pretty rare for somebody to really get
burned that way. Especially since any dishonesty would be grounds for a
lawsuit. But, I don't want to be one of the unlucky "few"..

In a previous article, Paul Folbrecht said:
How stupid would you have to be to buy an airplane sight-unseen at Ebay
motors? Just marginally stupid or something close to incredibly stupid?

My understanding is that eBay purchases of aircraft are contingent on both
parties accepting a pre-purchase inspection. I'm sure there is the usual
price negotiations about who pays for what on the stuff that shows up in
the pre-purchase inspection.


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
I got accused of being humorless last night. I'm considering quoting
Lieutenant Commander Data: "Perhaps the joke was not funny."
-- Alan Rosenthal

Ebay motor bids are non binding bids. unless that is just for autos and real
estate? but I believe it is for aircraft also.

Certain eBay auctions involve non-binding bids, for example, certain real
estate auctions. Non-binding bidding does not culminate in a contract
between the seller and the buyer. However, even though non-binding bids do
not contractually obligate the parties, non-binding bids represent a serious
expression of interest and bogus bidding is prohibited.



"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...
In a previous article, Paul Folbrecht
said:
How stupid would you have to be to buy an airplane sight-unseen at Ebay
motors? Just marginally stupid or something close to incredibly stupid?

My understanding is that eBay purchases of aircraft are contingent on both
parties accepting a pre-purchase inspection. I'm sure there is the usual
price negotiations about who pays for what on the stuff that shows up in
the pre-purchase inspection.


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
I got accused of being humorless last night. I'm considering quoting
Lieutenant Commander Data: "Perhaps the joke was not funny."
-- Alan Rosenthal

MRQB wrote:

Certain eBay auctions involve non-binding bids, for example, certain real
estate auctions.

Any real estate. Real estate must be purchased using a written
contract, ebay is not a written contract. A verbal contract may be used
but it is not enforceable.

Paul Folbrecht wrote:

Musings..

How stupid would you have to be to buy an airplane sight-unseen at Ebay
motors? Just marginally stupid or something close to incredibly stupid?

Apparently, as stupid as my student and I. We just bought our Socata
TB-9 there (pictures at http://www.flight-instruction.com/tb9.php,
http://www.flight-instruction.com/images/n30391/, and
http://www.barefootclown.net/aerial/). Made a deal contingent upon
pre-buy inspection. The pre-buy was less-than-stellar (but still not a
walk-away), so we talked the seller down a bit from the originally
agreed-upon price. We're happy with it, and it's out on the rental line
right now.

I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have, on group or in
private mail.

--Dave

--
Dave Buckles

http://www.flight-instruction.com

I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have, on group or in
private mail.

Why did you choose Ebay over the myriad of more accepted methods of
purchasing an aircraft?

I've bought a lot of things on Ebay, and (knock on wood) have not been
screwed yet. (Although one guy did take six weeks to deliver.)

Still, I'd be scared to death to buy anything worth that much on Ebay.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay,
the reason I'd consider it is on price alone. You are essentially
competing head-to-head against other hopefully reasonable buyers and not
usually paying a broker to blow smoke at you. The seller is often trying to
move his or her bird quickly at the lowest cost to them, so you just might
get the best price possible on the bird. Of course, I'd never waive the
pre-buy and wouldn't consider bidding on a bird that didn't include a right
to reject based on the outcome of the inspection.

I probably wouldn't bid on a brokered bird that was listed on ebay
because I think there could be too many unknowns.

Another gentleman in this thread related he had negotiated a lower than
bid price after finding some issues during the pre-buy. I think that is a
very fair and equitable way of handling this type of sale and hope to be so
fortunate when it comes my turn.

--
Jim Carter
Seen on a bumper sticker:
If you can read this, thank a teacher
If you can read this in English, thank a soldier.


"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:1sG0c.9294$ko6.197165@attbi_s02...
I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have, on group or in
private mail.

Why did you choose Ebay over the myriad of more accepted methods of
purchasing an aircraft?

I've bought a lot of things on Ebay, and (knock on wood) have not been
screwed yet. (Although one guy did take six weeks to deliver.)

Still, I'd be scared to death to buy anything worth that much on Ebay.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jim Carter wrote:
Another gentleman in this thread related he had negotiated a lower than
bid price after finding some issues during the pre-buy. I think that is a
very fair and equitable way of handling this type of sale and hope to be so
fortunate when it comes my turn.

That was me. We called him on the phone before placing the bid, and
discussed the possibility of things being found in the pre-buy. We
didn't put anything in writing, but had a verbal agreement that if
something came up, we'd work out something equitable. The only money we
sent at the time the auction closed was a $500 deposit. The rest was
contingent upon the pre-buy. We found a few squawks in the inspection,
and, based on that, renegotiated (ended up knocking $1500 off the
price). The only thing that didn't go particularly smoothly was MBNA
taking a couple of days longer than planned to get the money
transferred[0]. As a result of which, I was (involuntarily) reminded of
why I hate flying in Ohio so much in the winter (airplane was in Elyria,
OH, just west of Cleveland, and I live in Norman, OK, just south of
OKC). When the money came through, I bolted through the first hole in
the clouds that I saw.
I didn't feel uncomfortable about the process, even with just a verbal
agreement to make good on the inspection. In this case, I held the
upper hand: the money didn't get released until *I* said so, after the
inspection. The worst he can do is give me bad feedback on eBay, and I
can explain that with a mechanic's report and a comment about "item was
not as advertised." As it turned out, he was an honest, straightforward
guy, and the deal went smoothly. If not, eBay polices fraud pretty
well--their reputation depends on it. Things would have worked out.
The most we could have been out is $500, which, considering what we
saved on the airplane from bluebook value, is a hell of a good gamble
(we saved nearly $14K. Yes, you read that right.).
Jay: why eBay? Because that's where the airplane was. We found what
we wanted, at a good price. Honestly, if fewer people look there, it's
fine by me; fewer people to bid against!
As far "the other side of the country" goes, yes, I was a little bit
apprehensive about that. Not so much about being able to get it
inspected, but finding a mechanic I trust. Fortunately, I used to live
near Dayton (I flew from Waynesville, 40I), and know the people there.
They didn't want to do the pre-buy (not having any experience with
Socatas), but were able to recommend another guy. Having a network of
friends helps a lot (if they ever need anything down here, I'll be able
to recommend a shop to them. Or to anybody else, for that matter).
But, again, everything worked out well; it just took a little more work
than buying one on-field might have. Would I do it again? You
betcha--just as soon as I come up with another sixty big ones! If
anybody wants to contribute, the can is thataway ---.
--Dave

[0] MBNA: don't get me started on those clowns. The seller had the same
experience with them, only worse: he bought the airplane from New
Jersey, and flew it home. Got home, found out the money hadn't gone
through after all, so he had to fly *back* to New Jersey, wait for the
(electronic) transfer to clear, and fly home. Others have commented on
them recently, so I'll just quite here. Dolts.