Getting a little sick of it all

I am getting sick and tired of rude, arrogant, sellers funny thing I just
had a guy refuse to let my mechanic do a pre buy said he could not trust my
mechanic to give an honest opinion and that if I cannot decide for my self
if I wanted it or not then I don't need an airplane and don't need to be an
airplane owner or a pilot with poor decision making skills.

Is it just me or is the whole aviation industry like this I have not found 1
airplane yet that some one was not hiding something or trying to hide. This
last airplane that I looked at was great kinda sounded to good to be true,
seller lost job and needed money the logs looked like they were in order had
2 missing years but had a good explanation and a NTSB search showed no
accident history. I told him that id have an A&P come over tomorrow and do a
pre buy and review his logs again. He said no you can have my mechanic do
your pre buy as no inspection plates are coming off with out my mechanic
taking them off. I told him that you can have your mechanic do all the
wrenching but I need my mechanic look it over before I buy. He refused to
let me do a pre buy so I walked away and went home.

He called me up later in the evening and said to tell him now if I wanted it
or not and real persistent that I give him an answer right now, I told him
that I am really interested and as I told him earlier today I need to do a
pre buy first before I can make that decision. He said flat out no pre buy
from an independent A&P and his reasoning were that an independent A & P did
not know his airplane "Cessna 172" and if the independent A & P found
something wrong (Airworthy Issue) that he would have to fix it before he
could fly it again and he did not have the money to do that if I did not buy
the airplane. If I cannot make my own decisions mabye I should let him talk
to the woman of the house and let her make it. I said sorry and immediately
hung up the phone!

This guy had the nerve to call me back telling me that I was rude for
hanging up on him and if you cannot tell what a good deal is with your own
eyes then I you will never own a airplane. I hung up on him and entered his
phone # in to my call rejection.

Yes the deal seemed like a good deal almost to good to be true 1976 172
8,000TT 700 SFRM $28,000 Firm his log books and AD lists were the best I
have seen to date very organized Annual was due at the end of the month. No
telling what problems this guy was trying to hide with this airplane.

What is with some of these people they seem worse then car dealers.

Here is funny one read below first thing that tripped mu bull**** indicator
was when he said "I cannot recall" well if they have compleate logs it
should be a simple yes or no answer.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------

The airframe book refers to a 337 but we do not have it. I could get a copy
from the feds in Ok City, but would take a little while. Do you want one?

Pete
----- Original Message -----
From: "MRQB"
To: "Pete or Harriet Schoeninger"
Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 12:57 AM
Subject: AD INQUIRY - 1979 Cessna 152


Do you have a 337 on that repair.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Pete or Harriet Schoeninger"
To: "TAC"
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 6:06 PM
Subject: AD INQUIRY - 1979 Cessna 152


Logs indicate firewall repair in 1982. Pete
----- Original Message -----
From: "TAC"
To: "Pete or Harriet Schoeninger"
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 10:23 PM
Subject: AD INQUIRY - 1979 Cessna 152


March 05, 1982 can you look that up in the logs for me.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Pete or Harriet Schoeninger"
To:
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 8:13 PM
Subject: AD INQUIRY - 1979 Cessna 152


Forgot to tell you... all logs, I cannot recall any major damage.
Pete
----- Original Message -----
From: "Trade-A-Plane Web Site"
To:
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:27 PM
Subject: AD INQUIRY - 1979 Cessna 152


A Trade-A-Plane web user wishes to inquire about your ad.

This message is from:

Please send all the spec's thank you.

Dose it have all the logs and is there any damage history?

I am getting sick and tired of rude, arrogant, sellers funny thing I just
had a guy refuse to let my mechanic do a pre buy said he could not trust
my
mechanic to give an honest opinion and that if I cannot decide for my self
if I wanted it or not then I don't need an airplane and don't need to be
an
airplane owner or a pilot with poor decision making skills.

Yeah, I've run into a couple of sellers who didn't want my mechanic looking
at their planes.

I immediately assumed they were hiding something, and told 'em to pound
salt. But don't worry -- they are probably hiding something anyway, so
you've lost nothing by walking away.

IMHO, anyone who buys from someone like this is an idiot, and deserves to be
parted from his or her money. Caveat emptor.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Yes, its getting a little frustrating I think I am going to quit looking for
a while just to let my nerves settle a bit.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:iix1c.470784$na.1115474@attbi_s04...
I am getting sick and tired of rude, arrogant, sellers funny thing I
just
had a guy refuse to let my mechanic do a pre buy said he could not trust
my
mechanic to give an honest opinion and that if I cannot decide for my
self
if I wanted it or not then I don't need an airplane and don't need to be
an
airplane owner or a pilot with poor decision making skills.

Yeah, I've run into a couple of sellers who didn't want my mechanic
looking
at their planes.

I immediately assumed they were hiding something, and told 'em to pound
salt. But don't worry -- they are probably hiding something anyway, so
you've lost nothing by walking away.

IMHO, anyone who buys from someone like this is an idiot, and deserves to
be
parted from his or her money. Caveat emptor.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

I agree with Jay. Anyone who won't let a mechanic look at it is hiding
something. Just thinking about it, 8000 hours for a 28 year old airplane is
285 hours per year. Everything I have ever read has said that a highly
active pilot only flies 50-60 hours per year. This one has been a worker.
I would suspect that someone went off a runway and collapsed the nose gear
about 700 hours ago which lead to the firewall repair ( what could you do to
a firewall other than replace it? ) and just happens to be detailed in the
missing log pages. In my airplane searches, I have found that about all
that is available in the winter ( non vfr ) months are the ones that didn't
sell in the summer. You might try your local paper, our local paper
www.oregonian.com ( listing 606 )seems to be a good place to find some
pretty good deals that aren't noticed by most of the aviation community.

Good Luck in your search.



"MRQB" wrote in message
...
Yes, its getting a little frustrating I think I am going to quit looking
for
a while just to let my nerves settle a bit.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:iix1c.470784$na.1115474@attbi_s04...
I am getting sick and tired of rude, arrogant, sellers funny thing I
just
had a guy refuse to let my mechanic do a pre buy said he could not
trust
my
mechanic to give an honest opinion and that if I cannot decide for my
self
if I wanted it or not then I don't need an airplane and don't need to
be
an
airplane owner or a pilot with poor decision making skills.

Yeah, I've run into a couple of sellers who didn't want my mechanic
looking
at their planes.

I immediately assumed they were hiding something, and told 'em to pound
salt. But don't worry -- they are probably hiding something anyway, so
you've lost nothing by walking away.

IMHO, anyone who buys from someone like this is an idiot, and deserves
to
be
parted from his or her money. Caveat emptor.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Robert Bates" wrote:
...Everything I have ever read has said that a highly
active pilot only flies 50-60 hours per year.

Really? I thought that 50-60 hours per year would be more like
"average."

I fly about 120 hr/yr and still don't consider myself "highly active."
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM
(remove pants to reply by email)

"Dan Luke" wrote
Really? I thought that 50-60 hours per year would be more like
"average."

I fly about 120 hr/yr and still don't consider myself "highly active."

The average private airplane flies 26 hours a year.

Michael

In article SJx1c.37294$PR3.745133@attbi_s03, "Robert Bates"
writes:

I agree with Jay. Anyone who won't let a mechanic look at it is hiding
something.

Not always, it's a two way street. Seven years ago when I bought my plane, the
owner flew it to my airport and my A&P did the pre-buy. Owner kept saying "I
should just go back home. I don't want to sell this plane" and I kept thinking
"Doesn't matter much what Tom finds, I want this plane." Well, someone
protects those in love, the plane passed, and all has gone well for the last
seven years.

However, now as an owner, I can see both sides. What if my A&P and I had been
dishonest? The A&P grounds the plane and my negotiating position sure has
improved. What if the inspection damaged something? You who have sold a
plane, (this one is my first) what are your comments. Can you have a pre-buy
by an A&P and not give him the option to ground the plane?

Chuck

(PaulaJay1) writes:

In article SJx1c.37294$PR3.745133@attbi_s03, "Robert Bates"
writes:

I agree with Jay. Anyone who won't let a mechanic look at it is hiding
something.

Not always, it's a two way street. Seven years ago when I bought my plane, the
owner flew it to my airport and my A&P did the pre-buy. Owner kept saying "I
should just go back home. I don't want to sell this plane" and I kept thinking
"Doesn't matter much what Tom finds, I want this plane." Well, someone
protects those in love, the plane passed, and all has gone well for the last
seven years.

However, now as an owner, I can see both sides. What if my A&P and I had been
dishonest? The A&P grounds the plane and my negotiating position sure has
improved. What if the inspection damaged something? You who have sold a
plane, (this one is my first) what are your comments. Can you have a pre-buy
by an A&P and not give him the option to ground the plane?

I'd ask the buyer to come with his mechanic to my hangar. He can ground
the plane all he wants, if the mechanic is just being a jerk, I'll get my
mechanic to undo the paperwork death.

A friend of mine was selling his Mooney, and flew it to the buyer's
choice of mechanic. It passed, but for reasons I don't recall, my
friend flew back home in the Mooney. A couple of days later, he takes
it to his shop for an oil change, and the mechanic there points out
how the landing gear doors had been misrigged during the prepurchase
inspection.

All ended well, but it's something I've been thinking about ever since.

-jav

PaulaJay1 wrote:

Can you have a pre-buy
by an A&P and not give him the option to ground the plane?

An A&P cannot ground an aircraft.

George Patterson
A diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that
you look forward to the trip.

The PreBuy A&P is working for the buyer to determine if the plane is worth
the price to him. He's not working for the seller and has no authority to
make
any notations at all in the log. Now if he feels he has a strong enough case
that
the plane is unairworthy he could sure call the FAA. Let the A&P look over
the
logs, then take them back into your possession. I think it would be pretty
foolish
to let your airplane go to another airport to an A&P not known to you along
with it's logs.


"PaulaJay1" wrote in message
...
In article SJx1c.37294$PR3.745133@attbi_s03, "Robert Bates"
writes:

You who have sold a
plane, (this one is my first) what are your comments. Can you have a
pre-buy
by an A&P and not give him the option to ground the plane?

Chuck