cost of ownership

I know this has been asked a million times, but I have to ask just one more
time.
I would love to know your real-world costs of ownership for your fixed gear
single.
A 172, cherk 180, etc.
I'm trying to figure out how much renting I have to do before it becomes
plausible to own.
Any advice as to insurance, fixed and variable costs, etc.
Thanks

Adam

If your needing to justify owning, then you may as well continue renting, I own
not because I fly xxx hours a year or because owning is cheaper then renting, I
own because I like to come back to my airplane the way I left it, I own because
I can get up at any hour of the day and night and go anywhere I want, I own
because I hate rental junk, I own because there is something special about
having your own personal airplane.

Airplanes are expensive, its not something I would jump into if I didn't have
the disposable income. make it easy and just use the basics to see if you can
afford it
insurance 1000$ a year or higher
tiedown 45$ a month or higher
loan payment ???
annual inspection: figure 1000$ (could be allot more)
fuel

if you can pull off the above without having any financial problems then you
should be ok. if you have to figure it up on paper, then anything else that
arises will sink you.



The Weiss Family wrote:

I know this has been asked a million times, but I have to ask just one more
time.
I would love to know your real-world costs of ownership for your fixed gear
single.
A 172, cherk 180, etc.
I'm trying to figure out how much renting I have to do before it becomes
plausible to own.
Any advice as to insurance, fixed and variable costs, etc.
Thanks

Adam

disposable income? bill gates don't even have disposable income why don't
you try "extra money to spend" instead of disposable income.


"Jeff" wrote in message
...
If your needing to justify owning, then you may as well continue renting,
I own
not because I fly xxx hours a year or because owning is cheaper then
renting, I
own because I like to come back to my airplane the way I left it, I own
because
I can get up at any hour of the day and night and go anywhere I want, I
own
because I hate rental junk, I own because there is something special about
having your own personal airplane.

Airplanes are expensive, its not something I would jump into if I didn't
have
the disposable income. make it easy and just use the basics to see if you
can
afford it
insurance 1000$ a year or higher
tiedown 45$ a month or higher
loan payment ???
annual inspection: figure 1000$ (could be allot more)
fuel

if you can pull off the above without having any financial problems then
you
should be ok. if you have to figure it up on paper, then anything else
that
arises will sink you.



The Weiss Family wrote:

I know this has been asked a million times, but I have to ask just one
more
time.
I would love to know your real-world costs of ownership for your fixed
gear
single.
A 172, cherk 180, etc.
I'm trying to figure out how much renting I have to do before it becomes
plausible to own.
Any advice as to insurance, fixed and variable costs, etc.
Thanks

Adam

if I have extra money I put it in my money market account or stocks, disposable
income is just that - I can do as I want with it.

NW_PILOT wrote:

disposable income? bill gates don't even have disposable income why don't
you try "extra money to spend" instead of disposable income.

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
If your needing to justify owning, then you may as well continue renting,
I own
not because I fly xxx hours a year or because owning is cheaper then
renting, I
own because I like to come back to my airplane the way I left it, I own
because
I can get up at any hour of the day and night and go anywhere I want, I
own
because I hate rental junk, I own because there is something special about
having your own personal airplane.

Airplanes are expensive, its not something I would jump into if I didn't
have
the disposable income. make it easy and just use the basics to see if you
can
afford it
insurance 1000$ a year or higher
tiedown 45$ a month or higher
loan payment ???
annual inspection: figure 1000$ (could be allot more)
fuel

if you can pull off the above without having any financial problems then
you
should be ok. if you have to figure it up on paper, then anything else
that
arises will sink you.



The Weiss Family wrote:

I know this has been asked a million times, but I have to ask just one
more
time.
I would love to know your real-world costs of ownership for your fixed
gear
single.
A 172, cherk 180, etc.
I'm trying to figure out how much renting I have to do before it becomes
plausible to own.
Any advice as to insurance, fixed and variable costs, etc.
Thanks

Adam

On Fri, 21 May 2004 23:39:29 -0700, "The Weiss Family"
wrote:

I know this has been asked a million times, but I have to ask just one more
time.
I would love to know your real-world costs of ownership for your fixed gear
single.
A 172, cherk 180, etc.
I'm trying to figure out how much renting I have to do before it becomes
plausible to own.
Any advice as to insurance, fixed and variable costs, etc.
Thanks

If things work out, and you fly more than 100 hrs per year, owning can
be cheaper than renting. However, owning a plane is a huge financial
risk. The worst case example: An engine can start making metal at
any time, which (even in a 172 or Cherokee 180) is a 15-20k overhaul.
But, there are tons of smaller problems which can still put a major
dent ($100s if not $1000s) in a pocketbook.

Flying is a passion for most of us, so it is easy to have clouded
judgment surrounding the purchase of an airplane. Just be certain you
can afford it before you jump into ownership, because there is a real
possibility to end up with a plane that cannot be used, and stacks of
bill that need to be paid.

A flying club, or a partnership is a great way to get involved in the
ownership of a plane without taking the major financial risk. Yes,
you will still have to reserve the plane, and fight (a bit) over
scheduling, but it is better than renting, gives the pride of
ownership, and allows you better familiarization (and hence safety) by
regularly flying the same plane.

For your cost questions, here's some input: This is based on a
Cherokee 180.

Hangar (chicago suburbs): $300/month = $3600 / year
Insurance $900/year
Fuel: 200hrs/year @ 10gph @ $2.95/gal = $5900/year
Oil: 5 cases @ $50/case = $250/year.
Total: $10650 / year

So those are the known costs. The big question mark is maintenance
and annual inspection. I probably average a bit over $2k/year for
this, but have been as low as $1k and as high as $5k.

-Nathan

Nathan Young wrote:

For your cost questions, here's some input: This is based on a
Cherokee 180.

Hangar (chicago suburbs): $300/month = $3600 / year
Insurance $900/year
Fuel: 200hrs/year @ 10gph @ $2.95/gal = $5900/year
Oil: 5 cases @ $50/case = $250/year.
Total: $10650 / year

So those are the known costs. The big question mark is maintenance
and annual inspection. I probably average a bit over $2k/year for
this, but have been as low as $1k and as high as $5k.

You've left out some major costs, like engine reserve. True, it's not
cash out of pocket, but it's an accrued cost just the same.

My guess is for a Cherokee 180, you should be reserving something on the
order of $10/hr for engine overhaul/replacement. Get a quote from your
machanic on an overhaul or replacement. Divide that by the published
TBO, and you come up with an hourly depreciation rate. It's really only
a guess (your engine could crap out earlier, or it could make it past
TBO, and overhaul costs are variable depending on what they find when
they open it up), but it's a reasonable guess, and that's better than
nothing.

One nice thing about a flying club is you get the benefits of scale. My
club owns 7 planes, most of which fly 3-400 hours a year, so we average
a little more than one engine overhaul per year. Sometimes we make it
to TBO, sometimes we don't, sometimes we go past TBO. The good and the
bad average out so we can get a pretty good handle on what to expect in
the long run.

Thanks to all for your input.
I'm pretty anxious to get my own plane.
In fact, if my wife wasn't keeping me grounded (pun intended), I probably
would have bought one already.
Even though we could "probably" afford one on our own, she's making sure I
check out every detail.
Don't tell her, but she's probably right for doing so ;-)

Based on what you have informed me, I can show her some estimated monthly
numbers, and see what happens...

Thanks again,

Adam

"The Weiss Family" wrote in message
...
I know this has been asked a million times, but I have to ask just one
more
time.
I would love to know your real-world costs of ownership for your fixed
gear
single.
A 172, cherk 180, etc.
I'm trying to figure out how much renting I have to do before it becomes
plausible to own.
Any advice as to insurance, fixed and variable costs, etc.
Thanks

Adam

I had a cherokee 180 before I sold it for the turbo arrow, the actual costs
were not that much, now the costs of all the "must have" stuff like IFR
certified GPS, AM/FM stereo, speed mods and so on can eat you alive. And yes,
once you get a plane, you will find you must have something. you will see

outside of the basics, tiedown, annual, 50 hour oil changes, insurance, there
was not much more. these are pretty simple planes that can take a beating.

and if you do not want any costs, lease it back to a flight school, chances
are it will rent enough that it covers all your costs.

The Weiss Family wrote:

Thanks to all for your input.
I'm pretty anxious to get my own plane.
In fact, if my wife wasn't keeping me grounded (pun intended), I probably
would have bought one already.
Even though we could "probably" afford one on our own, she's making sure I
check out every detail.
Don't tell her, but she's probably right for doing so ;-)

Based on what you have informed me, I can show her some estimated monthly
numbers, and see what happens...

Thanks again,

Adam

"The Weiss Family" wrote in message
...
I know this has been asked a million times, but I have to ask just one
more
time.
I would love to know your real-world costs of ownership for your fixed
gear
single.
A 172, cherk 180, etc.
I'm trying to figure out how much renting I have to do before it becomes
plausible to own.
Any advice as to insurance, fixed and variable costs, etc.
Thanks

Adam

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
and if you do not want any costs, lease it back to a flight school,
chances
are it will rent enough that it covers all your costs.


If you do a lease-back, what type of insurance must you carry?

I leased back my old 180 for several months, the FBO took care of the
insurance, tie down and maint.
they would give me a monthly check of around 800-1000$ after everything
was paid for.
But it would require commericial insurance and 100 hour inspections. but
as I said, thats not an issue since the rentals actually pay for
everything.

The Weiss Family wrote:

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
and if you do not want any costs, lease it back to a flight school,
chances
are it will rent enough that it covers all your costs.


If you do a lease-back, what type of insurance must you carry?