Someone wanting to use our plane for thier commercial multi ticket

My boss, who I fly for and am office manager for, personally ownes a
Seneca II. He had someone come up to him and asked him if he could
use the plane to get his commercial multi since there was no other
multi in the immediate area to do this in. I am also an MEI so my
boss told him that he would look into it and that his pilot "me" was
an MEI and that he could use me as well.

My question is, how do we handle this so that we dont become a flight
school and now have to go thru 100 hour inspections which would
increase the owners costs? I have discussed with the owner the
possiblility of making this guy a limited partner/co-owner in the
aircraft so that we keep from becoming said school and having the
additional inspection put in place. The guy does not really care to
be a part owner for the long haul, just long enought to get his
comm-multi so we are looking at 10-20 hours would be all he would fly.


Any questions, comments, concerns????


Scott D.

Talk to your insurance Co. and ask if they would insure it while
you use it to train this one individual only as a one time deal.
Then charge the guy the for the additional amount of the insurance,
the fuel used plus an amount extra to cover oil and operating
costs. I would think if you are not doing this for anyone else
(thus you are not a flight school) and you are not making a profit
on it (over and above the operating costs he is paying) you would
not need 100Hr. inspections.

Scott D. wrote:
My boss, who I fly for and am office manager for, personally ownes a
Seneca II. He had someone come up to him and asked him if he could
use the plane to get his commercial multi since there was no other
multi in the immediate area to do this in. I am also an MEI so my
boss told him that he would look into it and that his pilot "me" was
an MEI and that he could use me as well.

My question is, how do we handle this so that we dont become a flight
school and now have to go thru 100 hour inspections which would
increase the owners costs? I have discussed with the owner the
possiblility of making this guy a limited partner/co-owner in the
aircraft so that we keep from becoming said school and having the
additional inspection put in place. The guy does not really care to
be a part owner for the long haul, just long enought to get his
comm-multi so we are looking at 10-20 hours would be all he would fly.


Any questions, comments, concerns????


Scott D.

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:40:51 -0700, Scott D. wrote:

My question is, how do we handle this so that we dont become a flight
school and now have to go thru 100 hour inspections which would
increase the owners costs?


If you do it before you accumulate 100 hours after last annual, you
won't have any problems. Also, since you're not making any money on
it, you may be exempt.

HTH.
z

zatatime wrote in message . ..
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:40:51 -0700, Scott D. wrote:

My question is, how do we handle this so that we dont become a flight
school and now have to go thru 100 hour inspections which would
increase the owners costs?


Also, since you're not making any money on
it, you may be exempt.

I'd be surprised if that was true. If it were, then flight schools
that couldn't make a profit could skip the 100 hr. inspection.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

On 10 Nov 2004 18:30:16 -0800, (John Galban)
wrote:

Also, since you're not making any money on
it, you may be exempt.

I'd be surprised if that was true. If it were, then flight schools
that couldn't make a profit could skip the 100 hr. inspection.


That's a commercial operation. Flight schools offer their planes for
hire, whether they make a profit on it or not is their problem. This
is an entirely different situation. The plane is not being offered
for hire, but loaned to someone for pursuit of a certificate.

z

zatatime wrote in message . ..
On 10 Nov 2004 18:30:16 -0800, (John Galban)
wrote:

Also, since you're not making any money on
it, you may be exempt.

I'd be surprised if that was true. If it were, then flight schools
that couldn't make a profit could skip the 100 hr. inspection.


That's a commercial operation. Flight schools offer their planes for
hire, whether they make a profit on it or not is their problem. This
is an entirely different situation. The plane is not being offered
for hire, but loaned to someone for pursuit of a certificate.

That's the whole point of the question. Money is going to change
hands (I assume the ME student won't get the plane for free) and the
OP is wondering about whether or not his relationship to the owner
will make it appear to be a flight school. To some, the owner
offering his plane and pilot to the student, could have the
appearances of a commercial operation. How will you determine that
they're exempt because they're "not making money on it".

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

On 11 Nov 2004 11:05:20 -0800, (John Galban)
wrote:

zatatime wrote in message . ..
On 10 Nov 2004 18:30:16 -0800, (John Galban)
wrote:

Also, since you're not making any money on
it, you may be exempt.

I'd be surprised if that was true. If it were, then flight schools
that couldn't make a profit could skip the 100 hr. inspection.


That's a commercial operation. Flight schools offer their planes for
hire, whether they make a profit on it or not is their problem. This
is an entirely different situation. The plane is not being offered
for hire, but loaned to someone for pursuit of a certificate.

That's the whole point of the question. Money is going to change
hands (I assume the ME student won't get the plane for free) and the
OP is wondering about whether or not his relationship to the owner
will make it appear to be a flight school. To some, the owner
offering his plane and pilot to the student, could have the
appearances of a commercial operation. How will you determine that
they're exempt because they're "not making money on it".

Because they are not renting the aircaft out or presenting it as any
other type of "For hire" operation.

z

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 19:31:13 GMT, zatatime wrote:

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:40:51 -0700, Scott D. wrote:

My question is, how do we handle this so that we dont become a flight
school and now have to go thru 100 hour inspections which would
increase the owners costs?


If you do it before you accumulate 100 hours after last annual, you
won't have any problems. Also, since you're not making any money on
it, you may be exempt.

The FAA doesn't care whether you are making money. They care whether
the aircraft is being rented. IMO, if the owner of the aircraft
receives any reimbursement for the training - it is a rental
operation.

Scott D. writes:

My boss, who I fly for and am office manager for, personally ownes a
Seneca II. He had someone come up to him and asked him if he could
use the plane to get his commercial multi since there was no other
multi in the immediate area to do this in. I am also an MEI so my
boss told him that he would look into it and that his pilot "me" was
an MEI and that he could use me as well.

My question is, how do we handle this so that we dont become a flight
school and now have to go thru 100 hour inspections which would
increase the owners costs? I have discussed with the owner the
possiblility of making this guy a limited partner/co-owner in the
aircraft so that we keep from becoming said school and having the
additional inspection put in place. The guy does not really care to
be a part owner for the long haul, just long enought to get his
comm-multi so we are looking at 10-20 hours would be all he would fly.


Any questions, comments, concerns????

I don't think you need to worry about 100 hour inspections, since you're
not providing the airplane (your boss is) and the airplane owner isn't
providing the instruction (you are).

-jav

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:40:51 -0700, Scott D. wrote:

My boss, who I fly for and am office manager for, personally ownes a
Seneca II. He had someone come up to him and asked him if he could
use the plane to get his commercial multi since there was no other
multi in the immediate area to do this in. I am also an MEI so my
boss told him that he would look into it and that his pilot "me" was
an MEI and that he could use me as well.

My question is, how do we handle this so that we dont become a flight
school and now have to go thru 100 hour inspections which would
increase the owners costs? I have discussed with the owner the
possiblility of making this guy a limited partner/co-owner in the
aircraft so that we keep from becoming said school and having the
additional inspection put in place. The guy does not really care to
be a part owner for the long haul, just long enought to get his
comm-multi so we are looking at 10-20 hours would be all he would fly.

Your boss can lend his plane to whomever he sees fit, as long as he
does not seek compensation for the hours flown (ie renting).

The next issue is insurance. There are two ways to make sure this
operation is covered.
1. Qualify under the open-pilot clause of the policy. This is
probably something like 1000TT, 250ME, and 50 in Seneca-II.
2. Have your boss add the MEI or the new pilot as a named-insured on
the policy. Unless the MEI/new pilot has similar time as your boss,
expect rates to go up.

-Nathan