Buying a used home-built?

It seems that there are some remarkable deals out there for 200 mph used
Glasairs, but I would hesitate to buy one simply because I wouldn't trust
the workmanship.

What's the consensus on this issue? Is this a valid fear, or -- as some
have told me -- does the workmanship on the average home-built meet or
exceed that of the average Spam Can?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

I subscribed to the Velocity newsletters for a while, and concluded
that on average they are OK. The problem is that any single aircraft
may be at either end of a long scale - i.e. a large standard deviation.
Builders are often tempted to take shortcuts on "non-essential" items
such as wiring, fluid lines, and particularly engines. Somebody's been
trying to sell a Velocity for several years that carries a GM
automobile engine.

wrote:
I subscribed to the Velocity newsletters for a while, and concluded
that on average they are OK. The problem is that any single aircraft
may be at either end of a long scale - i.e. a large standard deviation.
Builders are often tempted to take shortcuts on "non-essential" items
such as wiring, fluid lines, and particularly engines. Somebody's been
trying to sell a Velocity for several years that carries a GM
automobile engine.

I'd be interested in that if the price is right. Know how to contact them?

Thanks.

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 14:12:51 GMT, "Jay Honeck" wrote:

It seems that there are some remarkable deals out there for 200 mph used
Glasairs, but I would hesitate to buy one simply because I wouldn't trust
the workmanship.

What's the consensus on this issue? Is this a valid fear, or -- as some
have told me -- does the workmanship on the average home-built meet or
exceed that of the average Spam Can?

It's certainly something to consider. Completed composite structures are
difficult to inspect. But if you have someone familiar with them inspect the
homebuilt in question, he or she can probably see enough clues in the visible
areas to be able to conclude whether the hidden areas are done right. One
factor in favor is that homebuilts are usually designed with plenty of margin.

The concern is probably worse with a new airplane...if you're dickering on a
used one with a thousand hours or so, if it's still sticking together, odds are
it was done right.

If you are looking at a non-composite homebuilt, the process is a bit easier.
It's no tougher inspecting an RV-6 than it is a Cessna.

Ron Wanttaja

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:AlvFd.4154$OF5.3311@attbi_s52...
It seems that there are some remarkable deals out there for 200 mph used
Glasairs, but I would hesitate to buy one simply because I wouldn't trust
the workmanship.

What's the consensus on this issue? Is this a valid fear, or -- as some
have told me -- does the workmanship on the average home-built meet or
exceed that of the average Spam Can?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"


I wouldn't be afraid to buy one but I would consider taking a building
seminar for the model being considered or at least one with the same
construction technique. I would also look for quality touches like
nutplates instead of rivnuts. Also look for things like tefzel wire, nylon
temninals, neat wiring and fluid lines. Basically you want an airplane that
was built with care and not on a low budget. The homebuilts that I have
seen are all much higher quality than spam cans.

Mike
MU-2

Jay Honeck asks;

What's the consensus on this issue? Is this a valid fear,.....

Sure, the fear is valid, because there's no oversight of the
manufacturing - as has been pointed out, the standard deviation of
quality can be a lot larger than for spam-cans. However.....

.....or -- as some
have told me -- does the workmanship on the average home-built meet or
exceed that of the average Spam Can?

This is also true - the AVERAGE homebuilt is better than the AVERAGE
spam can. The standard deviation of quality is higher, too, as
mentioned above, so there will be some homebuilts that are a lot
crappier than spam cans, but most will be better.

That being said, having a person knowledgable in the particular aircraft
you're looking at examine the plane for you will tell you which end of
the spectrum you're on.

For composite aircraft, there are a few things that may be harder to
determine than with metal aircraft. For those, flight hours will be a
large determining factor. Even though I fly a composite aircraft, and
am very familiar with the technology, I wouldn't purchase a composite
homebuilt that had less than a hundred or so hours on it, and had
documentation (or at least attestations) that it had been tested to the
design limits. But if the plane in question has been flying for 300
hours, you can be pretty sure that the structure is sound, even without
looking at it.

Glasairs are VERY nice planes.... :-).

--
Marc J. Zeitlin
http://marc.zeitlin.home.comcast.net/
http://www.cozybuilders.org/
Copyright (c) 2004

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:AlvFd.4154$OF5.3311@attbi_s52...
It seems that there are some remarkable deals out there for 200 mph used
Glasairs, but I would hesitate to buy one simply because I wouldn't trust
the workmanship.

What's the consensus on this issue? Is this a valid fear, or -- as some
have told me -- does the workmanship on the average home-built meet or
exceed that of the average Spam Can?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"


Jay,

If this is really a concern, then go with a Van's.

Unless you intend to learn about composites to do your own repairs, then the
Van's will be a better purchase anyway. OTOH, if you want to learn about
composites, you can educate yourself to the point of being able to examine
glass work for quality and safety.

The rest is finding someone who knows the type to tell you what parts of any
particular design just like you have done on cert planes.

You getting bored up there in winter?

You getting bored up there in winter?

Not bored, but restless. I've always got a zillion things going on, so I
can't imagine ever being bored -- but mostly I just want to go fly.

Unfortunately, the weather has been completely uncooperative for the last 3
weeks.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay;
I've seen some ****-poorly built RV's that fly just fine. Unless it
was built by a fellow or crew with much experience, and not their
first model, I'd just stay away. Pick what you want and build it
yourself. There's nothing better than that accomplishment and you
know it's done right.

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 14:12:51 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

It seems that there are some remarkable deals out there for 200 mph used
Glasairs, but I would hesitate to buy one simply because I wouldn't trust
the workmanship.

What's the consensus on this issue? Is this a valid fear, or -- as some
have told me -- does the workmanship on the average home-built meet or
exceed that of the average Spam Can?

I've seen some ****-poorly built RV's that fly just fine. Unless it
was built by a fellow or crew with much experience, and not their
first model, I'd just stay away. Pick what you want and build it
yourself. There's nothing better than that accomplishment and you
know it's done right.

No way. I've known too many homebuilders to wish that fate on anyone.

There is no way I can afford to spend every waking spare moment, for the
next five years, away from my family building an airplane.

a) I don't have that many spare moments to spend with my family
b) I like to fly too much to waste that much time.

I truly admire those who have done it, but building a plane ain't for me.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"