3rd Class Med and Anti-depressants

Greetings:

I take an anti-depresant (LexaPro) and I know that FAA won't allow it.
Personally, I have no problem saying "FO" to the FAA (damn
bureaucrats).

Anyhow, can anyone tell me if current 3rd class exams do a drug test
of any kind (blood, unrine)? If they don't I have no problem
falsifying the form, after all one of our presidents lied under oath
and nobody cared, right??

Secondly, if I succeed in getting a 3rd Class under such "false
pretenses", what happens to my insurance in case of an "incident" of
some sort? Can my insurance carrier refuse to honor a claim because
my med cert wasn't really legal??

Would it make a difference if it's determined afterward that my taking
the drug in no way contributed to the cause? (like the landing gear
won't extend, I belly the sucker in and the insurer tries to deny
coverage).

I welcome answers from all, but am especially interested in those
familar with the laws (attorneys??), doctors who perform FAA exams or
perhaps someone who is already doing what I've mentioned above (NO I
*ain't* the FAA).

I especially DON'T want to hear from those wishing to "scold", lecture
or "preach" to me, or tell me what a jerk I am for considering such a
thing. I've been a pilot for 40 years, have never so much as scratched
an airplane or made a passenger sick, and to some degree *I* know
what's best for me. So, to those few with the holier-than-thou
attitudes please keep your responses to yourself; I won't even bother
to read them.

Of course I want to have the ticker and blood pressure, eyesight and
everthing else that's REALLY important checked properly by a qualified
medical examiner, in order to be as safe as I can for myself and
everyone else. But I can tell you that it'd be FAR better for me to
be flying around USING the drugs, than going off them to get the
medical and THEN flying. THAT would be far more potentially dangerous
than being on the drug, trust me.

Private EMail response welcomed at

Regards

D M

CP-ASMEL I

On 19 Jul 2003 20:04:13 -0700, (Don Martin)
wrote:

Greetings:

I take an anti-depresant (LexaPro) and I know that FAA won't allow it.
Personally, I have no problem saying "FO" to the FAA (damn
bureaucrats).
(snip)


Of course I want to have the ticker and blood pressure, eyesight and
everthing else that's REALLY important checked properly by a qualified
medical examiner, in order to be as safe as I can for myself and
everyone else. But I can tell you that it'd be FAR better for me to
be flying around USING the drugs, than going off them to get the
medical and THEN flying. THAT would be far more potentially dangerous
than being on the drug, trust me.

You don't consider the brain to be _REALLY important_ ?

Sir, the fact that you are on a mind-altering chemical which may
affect neurotransmitter activity in ways that may not be fully
understood and you've clearly demonstrated to the whole world that you
have a condescending attitude to the rules, that is proof enough to me
that you are lacking substantially in the judgement area and that
alone forms my opinion of you to not be a safe pilot.

Larry Rodriguez wrote:

You don't consider the brain to be _REALLY important_ ?

Personally, I'm wondering if someone out there hates the real Don Martin badly
enough to post this? If someone would post the fact that they are taking a
disqualifying drug and intend to falsify the medical exam application and then
sign their real name to it, I would agree that they are "lacking substantially
in the judgement area" (as you so nicely put it).

George Patterson
The optimist feels that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The
pessimist is afraid that he's correct.
James Branch Cavel

Question, why can't you get off the anti depressants? I'm currently a
student pilot and once I found out that taking Anti depressants is a no-no,
I arranged with my doctor to get off my happy pills (zoloft, wellbutrin, and
Depokote). I must admitt that it was really hard, but I can't and won't give
up the thought of getting my pilots license. Try working with your doc on
getting off your med's if possible.

For all ya pilots out there that suffer from Depression it's not the end of
the world, I suffer from Major Clinical Depression all my life, but the
last few years I let it get out of control when I lost my job. Still
unemployed but at my choice. While everbody else is working a 9-5 i'm
working on my pilots license!

Happy flying!



"Don Martin" wrote in message
om...
Greetings:

I take an anti-depresant (LexaPro) and I know that FAA won't allow it.
Personally, I have no problem saying "FO" to the FAA (damn
bureaucrats).

Anyhow, can anyone tell me if current 3rd class exams do a drug test
of any kind (blood, unrine)? If they don't I have no problem
falsifying the form, after all one of our presidents lied under oath
and nobody cared, right??

Secondly, if I succeed in getting a 3rd Class under such "false
pretenses", what happens to my insurance in case of an "incident" of
some sort? Can my insurance carrier refuse to honor a claim because
my med cert wasn't really legal??

Would it make a difference if it's determined afterward that my taking
the drug in no way contributed to the cause? (like the landing gear
won't extend, I belly the sucker in and the insurer tries to deny
coverage).

I welcome answers from all, but am especially interested in those
familar with the laws (attorneys??), doctors who perform FAA exams or
perhaps someone who is already doing what I've mentioned above (NO I
*ain't* the FAA).

I especially DON'T want to hear from those wishing to "scold", lecture
or "preach" to me, or tell me what a jerk I am for considering such a
thing. I've been a pilot for 40 years, have never so much as scratched
an airplane or made a passenger sick, and to some degree *I* know
what's best for me. So, to those few with the holier-than-thou
attitudes please keep your responses to yourself; I won't even bother
to read them.

Of course I want to have the ticker and blood pressure, eyesight and
everthing else that's REALLY important checked properly by a qualified
medical examiner, in order to be as safe as I can for myself and
everyone else. But I can tell you that it'd be FAR better for me to
be flying around USING the drugs, than going off them to get the
medical and THEN flying. THAT would be far more potentially dangerous
than being on the drug, trust me.

Private EMail response welcomed at

Regards

D M

CP-ASMEL I

Just something to consider. One of the potential side effects of many
anti-depressants is sudden siezures, which can occur without warning and
even after a considerable time taking the drug without having any prior
problems. For a PIC this is not good. I am not a doctor and not privy to
the FAA's reasoning but my guess is that is one of the primary reasons that
they are prohibited. Heck, being banned even when they're being taken for
non-psychiatric reasons, like prohibiting Zyban taken as an aid to stop
smoking, indicates there's something else in the logic besides concern over
the emotional state of the pilot.

"Don Martin" wrote in message
om...
Greetings:

I take an anti-depresant (LexaPro) and I know that FAA won't allow it.
Personally, I have no problem saying "FO" to the FAA (damn
bureaucrats).

Anyhow, can anyone tell me if current 3rd class exams do a drug test

Thanks for that thought. I have already considered that and my
psychiatrist says that since I've been on the drug for three years
with never a hint of any side effect, then the chance of a seizure is
so infintesimal as to be non-existant. Actually, Wellbutrin if far
more likely to cause seizures, than either Celexa or LexaPro (more
refined version of Celexa). I've been on Celexa since 1999 (20 mg per
day) and just recently switched to LexaPro at half that dosage.

Consider that at 60 (my age), it's quite easy to get a very "clean"
EKG at noon and be dead of a heart attack at 13:00. It happens, so
what's the difference??? Either way the plane is coming down. Heart
attack or seizure it makes no difference.

FWIW, my wife, with no ratings at all, but VERY competent at the
controls would be in the right seat on almost every flight. She flies
better from the right seat than I do!!

To the person that mentioned getting off the drug.... I can do that,
but if so I become the irritable, suffer severe anxiety attacks, am
quite hard to get along with, etc. But the best part is that it makes
my tolerance for a**holes extremely high!! 8-)

I've suffered this maldady all my life as did my father and his
mother.... It's hereditary. But it's just in the last 3 years that
I've been treated chemically. My qualify of life is so improved with
the drug that it's incredible.

Thank you both for you **constructive** and helpful responses.

D M

"Steve House" wrote in message ...
Just something to consider. One of the potential side effects of many
anti-depressants is sudden siezures, which can occur without warning and
even after a considerable time taking the drug without having any prior
problems. For a PIC this is not good. I am not a doctor and not privy to
the FAA's reasoning but my guess is that is one of the primary reasons that
they are prohibited. Heck, being banned even when they're being taken for
non-psychiatric reasons, like prohibiting Zyban taken as an aid to stop
smoking, indicates there's something else in the logic besides concern over
the emotional state of the pilot.

"Don Martin" wrote in message
om...

FWIW, my wife, with no ratings at all, but VERY competent at the
controls would be in the right seat on almost every flight. She flies
better from the right seat than I do!!


So perhaps your wife should get her private certificate and a medical. Then
you could legally fly in the left seat all you want as long as she is in the
right seat.
This is probably the simplest solution -- even if you had strong letters of
support from physicians, an initial Special Issuance takes at least 4-6
months. Your wife could easily have her private certificate in less time
than that, and then your problem is solved.

--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

"Steve House" wrote in message ...
Just something to consider. One of the potential side effects of many
anti-depressants is sudden siezures,

Let's stick to the facts here. The FAA doesn't ban antidepressents because
of the side effects, and none of the current popular ones has such a side effect.

I don't know anything about all the reasons behind the FAA's rational in
banning antidpressants but I know t for certain that siezures as a potential
side effect of Wellbutrin/Zyban. But if it's just the underlying
psychiatric condition that is the sole reason for the ban, why is the use of
Zyban as an aid to quitting smoking also a prohibited drug? As I mentioned
before, Zyban and Wellbutrin are the same drug in the same dosage from the
same manufacturer - the ONLY difference is in the labeling.

Here's one site that details the side effects and the siezure risk for
buproprion (Zyban/Wellbutrin)
http://www.thememoryhole.org/health/zyban-update.htm
and another
http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/buprop.htm





"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
m...

"Steve House" wrote in message
...
Just something to consider. One of the potential side effects of many
anti-depressants is sudden siezures,

Let's stick to the facts here. The FAA doesn't ban antidepressents
because
of the side effects, and none of the current popular ones has such a side
effect.

Pilots are held to a higher standard than the rest of the population when it
comes to mental health medications. There are millions of people driving
heavy metal down expressways every day while on the same drugs that
disqualify pilots. Is this fair? I don't think so.