Light Twins. How soft???

I keep hearing "the market for Light Twins is soft."

Anyone have any tales to tell?

Are used Light Twins not selling these days, or are they selling for
what some would consider "bargain" prices, or both?

Did the economy's shake-up knock quite a few people out of the Twin
tree - people who were just barely holding on, "before" the shake-up?

Basically, are there a glut of Light Twins on the market, now, because
people overbought (or overspent) during the previous (guessing) 5 or 6
years? First thing to go when things get tight is the Twin?

Are quite a few people trading (down) all at once?

Or is something else happening? Are there *other* market dynamics at
work here?

Again, anyone have any tales to tell?


(Wonder what the odds are of this thread hitting 300 posts? g)

--
Montblack

In a previous article, "Montblack" said:
Are used Light Twins not selling these days, or are they selling for
what some would consider "bargain" prices, or both?

Or has it become damn near impossible to find an insurance company that
will insure you in a light twin unless you have slightly more flying
experience than Bob Hoover?


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
Mentally update my CV, paying special attention to the bits
about how to say "Was Fired For Being A Prat" in a positive light.
-- Eric the Read's bad day

(Paul Tomblin) wrote in message ...
In a previous article, "Montblack" said:
Are used Light Twins not selling these days, or are they selling for
what some would consider "bargain" prices, or both?

Or has it become damn near impossible to find an insurance company that
will insure you in a light twin unless you have slightly more flying
experience than Bob Hoover?

IF the FAA's proposed AD on Cessna 300/400 series wings comes out as
it was proposed the last time I looked, it will definately drive those
aircraft sales into the pits. The proposed fix isn't too expensive
parts wise, but labor will be a killer. Their estimate for labor costs
is over $17,000, and I think that was per wing....

Craig C.

(Craig) wrote in message . com...
(Paul Tomblin) wrote in message ...
In a previous article, "Montblack" said:
Are used Light Twins not selling these days, or are they selling for
what some would consider "bargain" prices, or both?

Or has it become damn near impossible to find an insurance company that
will insure you in a light twin unless you have slightly more flying
experience than Bob Hoover?

IF the FAA's proposed AD on Cessna 300/400 series wings comes out as
it was proposed the last time I looked, it will definately drive those
aircraft sales into the pits. The proposed fix isn't too expensive
parts wise, but labor will be a killer. Their estimate for labor costs
is over $17,000, and I think that was per wing....

Is it the entire 3/400 series? Or just certain ones? Is their an
NPRM or similar we can reference?

-Nathan

Is it the entire 3/400 series? Or just certain ones? Is their an
NPRM or similar we can reference?

This site has a little info:
http://www.cessnatwinssparcorp.org/

--
Ben
C-172 - N13258 @ 87Y

The FAA won't stop at twin Cessnas. Look for the aging aircraft program to
hit a plane near you soon.


"Nathan Young" wrote in message
om...
(Craig) wrote in message
. com...
(Paul Tomblin) wrote in message
...
In a previous article, "Montblack"
said:
Are used Light Twins not selling these days, or are they selling for
what some would consider "bargain" prices, or both?

Or has it become damn near impossible to find an insurance company
that
will insure you in a light twin unless you have slightly more flying
experience than Bob Hoover?

IF the FAA's proposed AD on Cessna 300/400 series wings comes out as
it was proposed the last time I looked, it will definately drive those
aircraft sales into the pits. The proposed fix isn't too expensive
parts wise, but labor will be a killer. Their estimate for labor costs
is over $17,000, and I think that was per wing....

Is it the entire 3/400 series? Or just certain ones? Is their an
NPRM or similar we can reference?

-Nathan

Well, depends... And, Bob Hoover I ain't... I just sent the payment for
another year's renewal on my Apache... One million liability plus the value
of the hull... $2990.00 ymmv
Denny
"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...
In a previous article, "Montblack"
said:
Or has it become damn near impossible to find an insurance company that
will insure you in a light twin unless you have slightly more flying
experience than Bob Hoover?
Mentally update my CV, paying special attention to the bits
about how to say "Was Fired For Being A Prat" in a positive light.
-- Eric the Read's bad day

In a previous article, "Dennis O'Connor" said:
Well, depends... And, Bob Hoover I ain't... I just sent the payment for
another year's renewal on my Apache... One million liability plus the value
of the hull... $2990.00 ymmv

Is this a plane you've owned for a while, or one that you've bought
recently? I've heard it's absolutely impossible to get insurance for
buying a twin in a large partnership or flying club, but if they already
had a twin it's possible to renew it (just barely). I've also heard it's
getting much much harder for single owners to get insurance for a twin
unless they owned it a few years ago.


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
You'll get access to my computer room right after you pry the Halon test
key out of my cold, lifeless hands.
-- Simon Travaglia

I bought Fat Albert in '99... I have been a plane owner for 40 years, but
this is the first twin I've owned..
denny

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...
In a previous article, "Dennis O'Connor" said:
Well, depends... And, Bob Hoover I ain't... I just sent the payment for
another year's renewal on my Apache... One million liability plus the
value
of the hull... $2990.00 ymmv

Is this a plane you've owned for a while, or one that you've bought
recently? I've heard it's absolutely impossible to get insurance for
buying a twin in a large partnership or flying club, but if they already
had a twin it's possible to renew it (just barely). I've also heard it's
getting much much harder for single owners to get insurance for a twin
unless they owned it a few years ago.


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
You'll get access to my computer room right after you pry the Halon test
key out of my cold, lifeless hands.
-- Simon Travaglia

(Paul Tomblin) wrote
Is this a plane you've owned for a while, or one that you've bought
recently?

I'm not Dennis, but I've just renewed my insurance for the third time
and I paid $2500 for a mil of liability and $85K of hull. I've also
seen quotes of over $7000 for the same coverage on the same plane.
The buyer had no multi rating, no instrument rating, and less than 250
TT.

I've heard it's absolutely impossible to get insurance for
buying a twin in a large partnership or flying club, but if they already
had a twin it's possible to renew it (just barely).

By large partnership, you probably mean more than 5 people. Most
insurers treat you as a club at that point.

In any case, you've heard incorrectly. An established club with a
long term favorable claims history that doesn't own a twin CAN get
insurance on one, but it costs big bucks. In general, rental
insurance on a twin costs big bucks. The reason is simple - someone
who doesn't fly a twin a lot is a hazard in one. My insurer won't
even quote you if you don't have 80 hours twin time in the past year.

I've also heard it's
getting much much harder for single owners to get insurance for a twin
unless they owned it a few years ago.

Once again, not true. You can get insurance, but if you're not
qualified you can expect to pay through the nose. If you're
multi/instrument rated and current, it's no big deal.

Michael