Mylar aileron and flap seals

I'm just about to shoot paint (PPG Concept) on the Janus C wings after
months of stripping, profiling, priming, and sanding. I would prefer
NOT to apply any tape, including the mylar seals, for a month or two
after painting. I assume it will cost some performance, and I'm okay
with that. Is there a saftety of flight issue (like significant
degradation of aileron authority) likely to result from the un-sealed
ailerons/flaps? The airfoil is an FX-67-K-170 at the root to FX-67-
K-150 at the tip.
TIA
Jim

On 5/30/2012 3:30 PM, Grider Pirate wrote:
I'm just about to shoot paint (PPG Concept) on the Janus C wings after
months of stripping, profiling, priming, and sanding. I would prefer
NOT to apply any tape, including the mylar seals, for a month or two
after painting. I assume it will cost some performance, and I'm okay
with that. Is there a saftety of flight issue (like significant
degradation of aileron authority) likely to result from the un-sealed
ailerons/flaps? The airfoil is an FX-67-K-170 at the root to FX-67-
K-150 at the tip.
TIA
Jim

You're a STUD!!! Congrats on getting to where you are with this refinish!

The Zuni (& gobs of other 1st-generation glass ships, as you likely are aware)
nominally has the same 15% Wortmann airfoil at the root, Applebay-thinned (by
eyeball?) to 13% at the tip. I never bothered to seal my ailerons or flaps in
28 years of flying S/N 3 and never had any issues (that I could tell, wry
chuckle).

But you'd probably like to hear from actual Janus owners, I'm sure, given the
O-beer-thirty handling tales their appearance on the scene spawned! In any
event, my experience is this is one docile airfoil family.

Regards,
Bob W.

Of course, true STUDs develop power tools to do the job. Removing ancient gelcoat can be fun!
Fuzzy, if you've put an S-seal in, you could take your time with the Mylar, but best to just get it done. At least round one, anyway.
Jim

On Wednesday, May 30, 2012 4:22:47 PM UTC-7, BobW wrote:
You're a STUD!!!
Regards,
Bob W.

On May 30, 8:07*pm, JS wrote:
* Of course, true STUDs develop power tools to do the job. Removing ancient gelcoat can be fun!
* Fuzzy, if you've put an S-seal in, you could take your time with the Mylar, but best to just get it done. At least round one, anyway.
Jim







On Wednesday, May 30, 2012 4:22:47 PM UTC-7, BobW wrote:
You're a STUD!!!
Regards,
Bob W.

Thanks all,
JJ - Good to know. I thought that might be the case, Concept being a
catalyzed paint, but my worry is based on way too many years of using
non-catalyzed paints.
JS, Yeah, that was quick, but really scary. There was no evidence of
an S seal ever being installed, just mylars top and bottom. Believe
me, I will be very happy to finish this round of refinishing. I'm
going to celebrate by growing fingerprints again, since I've worn mine
off. Next year the tips and horizontal, and maybe the fuse in 2014.
Bob... uh...thanks?

On 31 May, 14:06, jim wynhoff wrote:
On May 30, 8:07*pm, JS wrote:

* Of course, true STUDs develop power tools to do the job. Removing ancient gelcoat can be fun!
* Fuzzy, if you've put an S-seal in, you could take your time with the Mylar, but best to just get it done. At least round one, anyway.
Jim

On Wednesday, May 30, 2012 4:22:47 PM UTC-7, BobW wrote:
You're a STUD!!!
Regards,
Bob W.

Thanks all,
JJ - Good to know. *I thought that might be the case, Concept being a
catalyzed paint, but my worry is based on way too many years of using
non-catalyzed paints.
JS, Yeah, that was quick, but really scary. *There was no evidence of
an S seal ever being installed, just mylars top and bottom. Believe
me, I will be very happy to finish this round of refinishing. *I'm
going to celebrate by growing fingerprints again, since I've worn mine
off. Next year the tips and horizontal, and maybe the fuse in 2014.
Bob... uh...thanks?

Hi folks,

My question is at the other end of the seal's lifespan - how to remove
the tape adhesive residue from the wing once the Mylar seal has been
removed? My progress, mechanically, is about 300mm per hour and I
would really welcome some practical advice on how do this more quickly
and less painfully. Recommendations on chemical solvents or
proprietary products would be appreciated. The aircraft is a PIK 20B
superbly refinished with 2-pack polyurethane about 9 years ago.

Regards,

Geoff Vincent
Grampians Soaring Club
Australia

On Thursday, May 31, 2012 8:25:37 AM UTC-4, Geoff Vincent wrote:
On 31 May, 14:06, jim wynhoff
wrote:
On May 30, 8:07*pm, JS wrote:

* Of course, true STUDs develop power tools to do the job. Removing ancient gelcoat can be fun!
* Fuzzy, if you've put an S-seal in, you could take your time with the Mylar, but best to just get it done. At least round one, anyway.
Jim

On Wednesday, May 30, 2012 4:22:47 PM UTC-7, BobW wrote:
You're a STUD!!!
Regards,
Bob W.

Thanks all,
JJ - Good to know. *I thought that might be the case, Concept being a
catalyzed paint, but my worry is based on way too many years of using
non-catalyzed paints.
JS, Yeah, that was quick, but really scary. *There was no evidence of
an S seal ever being installed, just mylars top and bottom. Believe
me, I will be very happy to finish this round of refinishing. *I'm
going to celebrate by growing fingerprints again, since I've worn mine
off. Next year the tips and horizontal, and maybe the fuse in 2014.
Bob... uh...thanks?

Hi folks,

My question is at the other end of the seal's lifespan - how to remove
the tape adhesive residue from the wing once the Mylar seal has been
removed? My progress, mechanically, is about 300mm per hour and I
would really welcome some practical advice on how do this more quickly
and less painfully. Recommendations on chemical solvents or
proprietary products would be appreciated. The aircraft is a PIK 20B
superbly refinished with 2-pack polyurethane about 9 years ago.

Regards,

Geoff Vincent
Grampians Soaring Club
Australia

It very much depends on the adhesive used.
I keep on hand acetone, laquer thinner, and 3M General purpose adhesive cleaner that is commonly used for automotive trim.
Add to this a very sharp chisel and a variety of scrapers.
Then, see what works with your particlar application.
You won't disolve the adhesive, but hopefully will find something that stops it from wadding up in a stick nasty wad.
It may take 2-4 passes to get really clean.
Good Luck
UH

On May 31, 8:25*am, Geoff Vincent
wrote:
On 31 May, 14:06, jim wynhoff wrote:









On May 30, 8:07*pm, JS wrote:

* Of course, true STUDs develop power tools to do the job. Removing ancient gelcoat can be fun!
* Fuzzy, if you've put an S-seal in, you could take your time with the Mylar, but best to just get it done. At least round one, anyway.
Jim

On Wednesday, May 30, 2012 4:22:47 PM UTC-7, BobW wrote:
You're a STUD!!!
Regards,
Bob W.

Thanks all,
JJ - Good to know. *I thought that might be the case, Concept being a
catalyzed paint, but my worry is based on way too many years of using
non-catalyzed paints.
JS, Yeah, that was quick, but really scary. *There was no evidence of
an S seal ever being installed, just mylars top and bottom. Believe
me, I will be very happy to finish this round of refinishing. *I'm
going to celebrate by growing fingerprints again, since I've worn mine
off. Next year the tips and horizontal, and maybe the fuse in 2014.
Bob... uh...thanks?

Hi folks,

My question is at the other end of the seal's lifespan - how to remove
the tape adhesive residue from the wing once the Mylar seal has been
removed? *My progress, mechanically, is about 300mm per hour and I
would really welcome some practical advice on how do this more quickly
and less painfully. *Recommendations on chemical solvents or
proprietary products would be appreciated. The aircraft is a PIK 20B
superbly refinished with 2-pack polyurethane about 9 years ago.

Regards,

Geoff Vincent
Grampians Soaring Club
Australia

If the adhesive still has enough tack that removal is a problem, I
don't use chemicals, I use heat.

A hair dryer is sufficient (high setting). Heat the adhesive tape to
about 50C and peel. If you can put your finger tip on the mylar for a
couple of seconds, but not keep it there, that's the right
temperature. The right combination of peel angle (roughly 135
degrees), speed and heat will lift off old Tesa bonding tape with
little if any residue (clean that up with solvent). This is about 50x
faster than solvent.

Likewise, heat is your friend when it is time to apply new seals.
Sanding is completely unnecessary provided that surfaces are clean and
warm (at least 30C). That said, sanding doesn't hurt. If in doubt,
go back over the bond line after application with hair dryer and back
of a table spoon or wall paper seam roller (while warm).

-Evan Ludeman / T8

On Thursday, May 31, 2012 5:25:37 AM UTC-7, Geoff Vincent wrote:
On 31 May, 14:06, jim wynhoff
wrote:
On May 30, 8:07*pm, JS wrote:

* Of course, true STUDs develop power tools to do the job. Removing ancient gelcoat can be fun!
* Fuzzy, if you've put an S-seal in, you could take your time with the Mylar, but best to just get it done. At least round one, anyway.
Jim

On Wednesday, May 30, 2012 4:22:47 PM UTC-7, BobW wrote:
You're a STUD!!!
Regards,
Bob W.

Thanks all,
JJ - Good to know. *I thought that might be the case, Concept being a
catalyzed paint, but my worry is based on way too many years of using
non-catalyzed paints.
JS, Yeah, that was quick, but really scary. *There was no evidence of
an S seal ever being installed, just mylars top and bottom. Believe
me, I will be very happy to finish this round of refinishing. *I'm
going to celebrate by growing fingerprints again, since I've worn mine
off. Next year the tips and horizontal, and maybe the fuse in 2014.
Bob... uh...thanks?

Hi folks,

My question is at the other end of the seal's lifespan - how to remove
the tape adhesive residue from the wing once the Mylar seal has been
removed? My progress, mechanically, is about 300mm per hour and I
would really welcome some practical advice on how do this more quickly
and less painfully. Recommendations on chemical solvents or
proprietary products would be appreciated. The aircraft is a PIK 20B
superbly refinished with 2-pack polyurethane about 9 years ago.

Regards,

Geoff Vincent
Grampians Soaring Club
Australia

There is no good answer, Geoff. but I have found that by applying some heat from a heat-gun, I can start to roll up one end and slowly work my way along, heating up the area ahead of the 'roll', I am creating.
Have fun,
JJ

On Wednesday, May 30, 2012 2:30:36 PM UTC-7, Grider Pirate wrote:
I'm just about to shoot paint (PPG Concept) on the Janus C wings after
months of stripping, profiling, priming, and sanding. I would prefer
NOT to apply any tape, including the mylar seals, for a month or two
after painting. I assume it will cost some performance, and I'm okay
with that. Is there a saftety of flight issue (like significant
degradation of aileron authority) likely to result from the un-sealed
ailerons/flaps? The airfoil is an FX-67-K-170 at the root to FX-67-
K-150 at the tip.
TIA
Jim

Jim,
Concept will dry (cure) to its final hardness in 3 days at 70 degrees F. I see no reason to delay MYLAR after that. Recommend you lightly sand the area that will come in contact with the double-back-sticky with 220G dry(10mm on wing and on MYLAR), wipe both down with acetone just before laying down the MYLAR.
JJ