Puchacz reviews

Hello All,

I am looking for real world reviews of the Puchacz (or the newer Perkoz)
in the club / instructional environment.
How do they hold up to daily use/abuse?
Maintenance issues?
How are they for ab-initio?
Truth to the spin-eager rep?
Any bad habits?

Thanks,
Tim

Puchacz is an old glider. Go to the http://szd.com.pl/en/products/szd-50-3-puchacz web site and look at the published service bulletins. It is still being used as a primary trainer in many countries around the World. And since it was designed in the expanded aerobatic category it will spin quite happily. If flown as it supposed to be flown, it does not present any problems, but if someone flies it carelessly it will bite; eg. right rudder/left aileron. I have flown in the Puchacz in the very first prototype in 1977 and I still like it, but there are better gliders now-a-days.
In the "Gliding International" magazine there is an article about the SZD 54-2 Perkoz. If you can't get a copy, send me an email to jacek dot kobiesa at raypolandandsons dot com and I will get you a PDF copy of this article.
If you don't mine taking care of an old glider then the Puchacz (also known as the Ruchacz) is a OK, but if you prefer a modern glider designed and tested to the latest requirements, willing to have a flexible glider which is capable of almost full aerobatic capabilities and have a cross country machine (17.5 m for basic training with winglets, 17.5 m with standard tip for aerobatics, and 20 m for cross country), than the Perkoz is the way to go. Also, take a look at the PW-6U; its cost is about half of the Perkoz. Link to the Soaring Cafe article : http://soaringcafe.com/2012/04/world...ilplanes-dead/

In this day and age I would not consider a Punchaz if you are planning
on acro. Look at the load limit/flight envelope chart and you will
see that it has a very low VNE and the limits to negative Gs gets
smaller as one approaches VNE. Any lack of attention in a blown
manuver and WATCH OUT. There is also quite a history of people not
recovering from spins. I participated in assembly of a Punchaz and it
was not pretty.
Guy

On 27/09/2012 13:36, cuflyer wrote:
Hello All,

I am looking for real world reviews of the Puchacz (or the newer Perkoz)
in the club / instructional environment.
How do they hold up to daily use/abuse?
Maintenance issues?
How are they for ab-initio?
Truth to the spin-eager rep?
Any bad habits?

Thanks,
Tim


Check the hours on the airframe. I think the current max lifetime hours
is 6750.



--

Nick Hill

At 12:36 27 September 2012, cuflyer wrote:
Hello All,

I am looking for real world reviews of the Puchacz (or the newer Perkoz)
in the club / instructional environment.
How do they hold up to daily use/abuse?
Maintenance issues?
How are they for ab-initio?
Truth to the spin-eager rep?
Any bad habits?

Thanks,
Tim

Let me start by saying that I like the Puchacz very much. About 4000
instructional flights and over 1000 hours in them. Perhaps they have been
bettered now, but I always claimed that it was the best training glider
available, it would do exactly what the pilot told it to do. One exception,
that in spite of it's reputation, pre-solo pilots had difficulty making it
spin.
They hold up well in a club use/abuse situation, but a few issues.
Wheelbrakes are poor design and can stick on. I've known 2 wheels on Puchs
being towed on the ground, explode due to extreme overheating. Better to
change to Tost wheels.
U/C bungees were poor quality, we changed to UK supply.
Aileron and elevator drive connections will eventually wear.
Trim wires occasionally break, but easily replaced.
Tailplanes are a fiddle to put on, but normally you don't do it very often.
You have to learn the technique.
We have used them for many years as ab initio trainers and for first solo.
In my personal experience, I have never had an unexpected departure, though
there have been spin in accidents. But there have also been with Oly 2bs
and Skylarks. What is the point of training pilots in gliders that will not
spin, then putting them in single seaters that will?
They seem almost unaffected by rain, quite an asset. In rough, turbulent
conditions I'd rather be in a Puch than anything. Excellent brakes. Very
good visibility.
There is a Dick Johnson flight test, and Dean Carswell did further spinning
tests (1994). It is the only glider I'm aware of where they got a better
L/D than the manufacture claimed, 32 as opposed to 30.
Dave

On Fri, 28 Sep 2012 10:53:11 +0000, David Salmon
wrote:


but I always claimed that it was the best training glider
available, it would do exactly what the pilot told it to do. One exception,
that in spite of it's reputation, pre-solo pilots had difficulty making it
spin.

Couple of letal spin accidents during winch launches in Germany with
instructors on board.
Pretty sure that the instructors did not tell the Puchacz to spin and
kill them and the student.

My 2 cents on the Puchacz.

Andreas

At 14:24 28 September 2012, Andreas Maurer wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2012 10:53:11 +0000, David Salmon
wrote:


but I always claimed that it was the best training glider
available, it would do exactly what the pilot told it to do. One
exception,
that in spite of it's reputation, pre-solo pilots had difficulty making
it
spin.

Couple of letal spin accidents during winch launches in Germany with
instructors on board.
Pretty sure that the instructors did not tell the Puchacz to spin and
kill them and the student.

My 2 cents on the Puchacz.

Andreas

I really don't want to start this running, but many other glider types have
done exactly the same, when unfortunately the winch launch is not handled
correctly. See the BGA website, and what has been done in the UK to try to
eliminate this type of accident. I have seen it happen to an ASW20, know
the pilot of a Mosquito, who survived, and knew an ASW19 pilot who didn't.
Sorry, but don't blame the glider. BTW, the Mosquito accident in Germany
was the subject of a widely distributed video.
Dave

On Friday, September 28, 2012 10:15:04 AM UTC-7, David Salmon wrote:
At 14:24 28 September 2012, Andreas Maurer wrote: On Fri, 28 Sep 2012 10:53:11 +0000, David Salmon wrote: but I always claimed that it was the best training glider available, it would do exactly what the pilot told it to do. One exception, that in spite of it's reputation, pre-solo pilots had difficulty making it spin. Couple of letal spin accidents during winch launches in Germany with instructors on board. Pretty sure that the instructors did not tell the Puchacz to spin and kill them and the student. My 2 cents on the Puchacz. Andreas I really don't want to start this running, but many other glider types have done exactly the same, when unfortunately the winch launch is not handled correctly. See the BGA website, and what has been done in the UK to try to eliminate this type of accident. I have seen it happen to an ASW20, know the pilot of a Mosquito, who survived, and knew an ASW19 pilot who didn't. Sorry, but don't blame the glider. BTW, the Mosquito accident in Germany was the subject of a widely distributed video. Dave

I was checked out in one, the club I belonged to at the time purchased about 10-12 years ago.
I was told prior it had a very benine spin characheristic. Boy was I in for a surprise!
Entered in a regular conventional way and she wound up like a mama!!
It did recover no problem through. I been told that if you really wanted a great surprise just cross it up and wach out. I never did tried this entery method throuh.
Our chief pilot did a deep slip once at altitude and it went over the top.
Later in a checkout it killed an instructor and the pilot being checked out from what we think was an intentional practice spin entry from altitude.
6PK

One of my clubs has been using a Puchacz as its basic trainer for more than a decade now, with excellent results. Compared to the Blaniks we used before, the pupils need a few more hours before solo, but the ship is much more comfortable. It makes the transition to a glass single seater like the Astir CS a bit easier (but we usually have the pupils doing some doubles on a Twin just to be sure).

Spinning issues: the Puchacz spins beautifully and stops spinning correctly, but one needs to effectively apply the controls to terminate the spin, especially if centred slightly rearward. In most circumstances, it won’t stop spinning if you don’t push hard on the opposite pedal and put the stick forward, while a Blanik usually seems to stop as soon as you release the back pressure on the stick. The Puchacz flight manual describes the different spinning modes in function of the centre of gravity and aileron position, so it pays to read it.

Maintenance: the automatic connection of the controls has a downside. The connectors must have a very tight fit to avoid creating excessive play. So there are two extreme situations: tight fit making the glider rather difficult to assemble, or glider easy to assemble but with too much play in the controls… One also has to regularly check the bungee cords in the main wheel suspension system.

Another issue is the very inefficient wheelbrake system. It only functions (and not very efficiently at that) if the wheel axle is perfectly smooth and slippery, as the wheel has to be pushed sideways on it by the mobile braking disk, against the fixed braking disk. There is not much leverage, as you have to pull on a small ball at the end of a very long cable. Without the benefit of a Bowden cable, your hand moves to and fro with the movements from the sprung undercarriage…

Hello Tim,

As an instructor I have about 2000 launches in the Puch, as a technician I
serviced four of them for 10+ years. A delight to fly, if proper spin
training is done in the club environment and the aircraft's flight envelope
is respected. As an ab-initio it is perhaps not ideal due to is spinning
ability (the reason we sold ours and converted to ASK-21s). Dick Johnson
wrote a good article on its pros and cons in spinning. Your questions:

How do they hold up to daily use/abuse?
Very well. We do 7-days a week flying, on an often wet airfield, with about
2000 flights a year per glider. A strong glider, that stands up to a lot of
abuse and has a very well sprung undercarriage that is an instructor's
delight. Spacious back cockpit. Getting the airbrakes extended from the
front cockpit is a bit awkward, but you get used to it. Aerobatics are not
really advisable, given low VNe, small margins for error, etc. Replace the
canopy cable (which stops the canopy from opening further than needed) with
a different design: they snap and it'll cost you a canopy. Don t buy one
with a skid but go for a tailwheel (less change of damage). The wheelbrake
sucks, but there's a mod for Tost brakes which we had and works wonderful.
Puchs (like e.g. ASK-13s) suffer from relatively low max. cockpit loads.
Check yours before buying. Respect airspeeds (we overstressed one in
repeated highspeed winch launches, with structural wing damage that needed
repair). Teach people to be careful with the tail in hangars. They are
ceconite covered control surfaces and prone to hangar rash. Airbrake caps
raise themselves at airspeeds in excess of 180 km/h or a bit lower with
high G. No issue, but scares the living daylight out of you if you do not
know this ;-)

Maintenance issues?
See the factory SB-overview for weak points (if you buy one make sure it
has the new design front wing attachments: this'll save a lot of hassle and
costs due to hairline cracking). Mainwheel bungees deteriorate with age.
Have a spare set available at all times. Easy to replace by technician.
Tailwheel tyres sometimes go off the rim with traversed landings. All
control cables have to be replaced every 12 years/1500 hours according to
SB 007/94 (lots of work). Canopy closing levers sometimes work loose when
lock rings are worn. Play on elevator after ca. 1500 hours is normal
(replace t-lever in the tail), play on stabilizer occurs as well (the
limits for play are enormous compared to German gliders, so that'll easy
your mind). We had one jammed bevel gear in the airbrake system due to
dirt, they are not an ideal design. Wear in the gears will cause asymmetric
opening and play. Trim tab actuator rods snap if lubrication is not carried
out regularly. Also, the lower rudder attachment ply and its vertical
support are prone to damage. This really should be an AD imho, but is not.
Check the horizontal ply for cracks, and the joint between vertical and
horizontal for disbonding at every DI to be sure.
All in all the Puch is a bit more work on maintenance than say an ASK-21,
but not too bad/costly if you have club technicians available for the brunt
of the work. Inspection schedule is every 50 flying hours, with a bigger
one every 250 (equal to an annual, which it has as well). A major
inspection/servicing every 1000 hours. Airframe lifetime is 6000 hours, but
may now be extended to 6750 and is expected to be more in some years time
as design life is 11000 hours. Parts supply and service is excellent from
Allstar.

How are they for ab-initio?
OK, provided you have a good spintraining programme that is mandatory for
all instructors who fly on it, to pass the information/skills on to their
students.

Truth to the spin-eager rep?
See the Johnson article. Aircraft has tendency to flatten out in a spin
rather quickly if back pressure is applied with low cockpit loads. Also:
with asymmetric stall from a turn with relatively little nose-up (but low
speed) wing will drop and with little warming go into spin. Other than this
it is very predictable, and gives ample warning.

Any bad habits?
I don't have any I am aware of.

No info on the Perkoz, sorry, only did one flight in it.

Eric