Nose release for a Ventus B

Even though my manual refers to both a nose and CG release, my Ventus only came with a CG. I am thinking of having a E85 TOST release installed for safer towing. Has anyone added a nose release to a previously CG release glider?

Dennis

On Mon, 28 Oct 2013 16:57:24 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

Even though my manual refers to both a nose and CG release, my Ventus only came with a CG.
I am thinking of having a E85 TOST release installed for safer towing. Has anyone added a nose
release to a previously CG release glider?

Dennis

Are you aware of the Tech Note on the Schempp-Hirth web site?
Technical note no. 349-3, "Retrofit of a nose release"
http://www.schempp-hirth.com/index.php?id=30&L=1

Bob

On Monday, October 28, 2013 9:06:58 PM UTC-4, Bob Gibbons wrote:
On Mon, 28 Oct 2013 16:57:24 -0700 (PDT), Even though my manual refers to both a nose and CG release, my Ventus only came with a CG. I am thinking of having a E85 TOST release installed for safer towing. Has anyone added a nose release to a previously CG release glider? Dennis Are you aware of the Tech Note on the Schempp-Hirth web site? Technical note no. 349-3, "Retrofit of a nose release" http://www.schempp-hirth.com/index.php?id=30&L=1 Bob

This was helpfull Thanks! My mechanic is asking me a few questions...

" Is the fiberglass bulkhead (that the release mechanism bolts to) already installed in your glider, does it come with an installation kit, or will I have to fabricate one? Does your glider already have the opening in the nose with the interior tube and pitot tube, does it come with an installation kit, or will I have to fabricate one? Does the mechanism come by itself, or in a kit with all the hardware, release cables, etc.?"

I know it has the opening in the nose (there is a vent in there now)I am not sure about the bulkhead.

Dennis

if your mechanic is asking such questions,
he/she is probably not very familiar with S-H company functioning system.
There is no problem to get full kit of parts necessary to install such additional equipment, if official SB/TN exists for it (and this is the case). Pls specify your S/N and expect delivery time 3+ weeks and price 1000+ E from nearest S-H dealer (release TOST mechanism not included). I am just considering the same for my Ventus...

I heartily applaud anyone that adds a nose hook to their glider. Smart move.

So many have told me that "real pilots aerotow with C.G. hooks". Why not make your glider inherently less prone to a whole class of launch accidents? The modification benefits you and all future users of your glider.

Sure you can "fly the glider", but you can also make a mistake one day.

On Tuesday, October 29, 2013 8:54:33 PM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
I heartily applaud anyone that adds a nose hook to their glider. Smart move.



So many have told me that "real pilots aerotow with C.G. hooks". Why not make your glider inherently less prone to a whole class of launch accidents? The modification benefits you and all future users of your glider.



Sure you can "fly the glider", but you can also make a mistake one day.

Give us a list of all the gliders you've aero-towed on CG hooks. Or just admit that you made this up.

My view: in many cases there are much better things to spend your money on. A case in point would be an ASW-20. Quite delightfully stable and easy to fly on tow on the CG hook, with no tow induced pitch trim to speak of. You would be silly to dump money into a nose hook on an 20A model in favor of the automatic hook up elevator modification (expensive, but a life saver)..

I think it can be objectively stated as fact: a nose hook will not cover your mistakes. The last fatal accident I recall in the US involving an out of control glider on aero tow involved a nose hook (only) equipped Schweizer..

What a nose hook does for you on a modern high performance single place: it buys you a small amount of yaw stability during the acceleration phase of an aero tow. This is especially helpful if there are more that one of the following in play

* water ballast
* cross wind over 10 kts
* no wing runner (best not to combine with other factors)
* high density altitude
* poor tow plane performance

I have no opinion on the OP's Ventus as I have no time in type.

Evan Ludeman / T8

On Wednesday, October 30, 2013 10:46:20 AM UTC-4, Evan Ludeman wrote:

Give us a list of all the gliders you've aero-towed on CG hooks. Or just admit that you made this up.

I apologize for coming off as a smartass about what experienced pilots have told me about C.G. hooks. I'm grateful that people share their experience on RAS.

My understanding is that CS-22 (aka JAR 22) requires nose hooks in all new gliders. That is the primary foundation for my enthusiastic support of nose hook retrofitters.

The CS-22 requirement is based on experience with older gliders that do not have nose hooks. So a reasonably-priced retrofit seems logical. I can buy that a nose hook retrofit may be of marginal value for an expert pilot. By the same token, I'd guess that it has the highest value for a non-expert or transitioning pilot.

The biggest problem I've seen with cg hooks is in combination with tail skids on early gliders, like our ex club mini nimbus. With a good tail wheel, you get a lot of crosswind directional stability in the early part of takeoff roll.

You won't ground loop on takeoff until a wing goes down and starts dragging.. The nose hook is only useful if you plan to leave the wing down, dragging away, hoping to pick it up, and rudder isn't enough to keep the glider straight. Releasing might be a better plan -- and now it doesn't matter where the hook is.

On modern gliders, I can't see how uncommanded kiting is a problem on airtows. Lots of elevator authority, c.g. or not. The extra pitch up moment from the cg hook is -- except for unbelievably rare circumstances (Robertson crash) -- plenty

John Cochrane

On 31/10/2013 01:46, Evan Ludeman wrote:

My view: in many cases there are much better things to spend your
money on. A case in point would be an ASW-20. Quite delightfully
stable and easy to fly on tow on the CG hook, with no tow induced
pitch trim to speak of. You would be silly to dump money into a nose
hook on an 20A model in favor of the automatic hook up elevator
modification (expensive, but a life saver).
......
Evan Ludeman / T8

Nose hooks are compulsory in Australia.

Shortly after I got my 20, I asked a fellow owner if he got the same
loud drumming vibration (coming from under my legs) that I did around
70kts and above. He said "No."

I asked what he thought might cause it. He said "It's the cavity behind
the nose hook opening resonating. I asked why he didn't have the noise.
He said "Because I taped up the nose hook opening. If I use the nose
hook it causes an annoying resonance above about 70 knots. I launch on
the CG hook."

GC

On Tuesday, October 29, 2013 7:54:33 PM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
I heartily applaud anyone that adds a nose hook to their glider. Smart move.



So many have told me that "real pilots aerotow with C.G. hooks". Why not make your glider inherently less prone to a whole class of launch accidents? The modification benefits you and all future users of your glider.



Sure you can "fly the glider", but you can also make a mistake one day.

Well you could also remove the CG hook (and nose hook if installed) and make the glider totally immune to all launch accidents ;^)

Seriously, towing in a Ventus B with a CG hook is not a big deal. If you have the spare change, sure, go for it, but a Flarm or transponder would be a better use of the cash, if there is a choice.

Or get winglets - which really make a difference in how the B handles!

Kirk
66
(uneventful CG tows in Ventus B, Std Cirrus, LS4, ASW-20, Speed Astir, and LS6)