Methane Cloud?

Saw just a real short clip of something on the Disc channel tonight
about how methane clouds affect aircraft. Lower pressure causes the
plane to drop because of reduced lift, and the altimeter to read a
climb because of the pressure change. I think this show may have been
in the context of bermuda triangle stuff. Maybe Im just out of the
loop but I had never heard of this happening (flying into a cloud of
methane I mean). They seemed to have some pretty reputable people
talking about it. Anyone experience this or hear of it?

the only way I could figure flying into a methane cloud serious enough to
have any effect on flight.. would be low level over a stock yard pen..

and then I think the effect would be more on the physical condition of the
pilot.. and not the aerodynamic effect of the wings or altitude sensors..

BT

"Martin" wrote in message
om...
Saw just a real short clip of something on the Disc channel tonight
about how methane clouds affect aircraft. Lower pressure causes the
plane to drop because of reduced lift, and the altimeter to read a
climb because of the pressure change. I think this show may have been
in the context of bermuda triangle stuff. Maybe Im just out of the
loop but I had never heard of this happening (flying into a cloud of
methane I mean). They seemed to have some pretty reputable people
talking about it. Anyone experience this or hear of it?

"Martin" wrote in message
om...
Saw just a real short clip of something on the Disc channel tonight
about how methane clouds affect aircraft. Lower pressure causes the
plane to drop because of reduced lift, and the altimeter to read a
climb because of the pressure change. I think this show may have been
in the context of bermuda triangle stuff. Maybe Im just out of the
loop but I had never heard of this happening (flying into a cloud of
methane I mean). They seemed to have some pretty reputable people
talking about it. Anyone experience this or hear of it?


Martin,

It's a theory that's been "floating" around for some time, but mostly
regarding it's effect on ships.

They've modeled the effect of a methane mega-bubble on bouyancy and have
shown that a large ship would basically drop like a stone if it were to sail
across such a bubble. Hence no SOS, no life boats, no sign of ship or crew.

I'm just guessing, but I'm pretty sure there would have to be a similar
effect on an aircraft due to a decrease in air density?

FWIW...

Jay Beckman
Chandler, AZ

They've modeled the effect of a methane mega-bubble on bouyancy


Whazzat? Methane dissolved in the ocean to the extent that the water's density
goes down enough to sink a ship?

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

Teacherjh wrote:
They've modeled the effect of a methane mega-bubble on bouyancy


Whazzat? Methane dissolved in the ocean to the extent that the water's density
goes down enough to sink a ship?

Jose

A good read on this at ....
http://dsc.discovery.com/news/afp/20031020/methane.html

"Teacherjh" wrote in message
...

They've modeled the effect of a methane mega-bubble on bouyancy


Whazzat? Methane dissolved in the ocean to the extent that the water's
density
goes down enough to sink a ship?

Jose

Yes, exactly. There are big methane-hydrate deposits off the east coast,
kept stable by the pressure at great depth. There was an oil platform lost
due to a well head blowout that caused the same effect. Lots of theories
about methane-hydrates and lowered sea levels during ice ages release of
methane causes global warming, ending ice age cycle repeats every 11-
20,000 years.

Methane hydrate exists as ice
http://marine.usgs.gov/fact-sheets/g...tes/title.html
http://sepwww.stanford.edu/public/do...96/paper_html/
http://www.gsfc.nasa.gov/topstory/20011212methane.html

On Mon, 10 May 2004 03:17:58 +0000, Teacherjh wrote:


They've modeled the effect of a methane mega-bubble on bouyancy


Whazzat? Methane dissolved in the ocean to the extent that the water's density
goes down enough to sink a ship?

Jose


Well, I don't think it was dissolved. I recently watched a show called,
"Diving the Bermuda Triangle", or something like that. They showed
footage of a large area on the sea floor where steady streams of bubbles
popped up from the floor and rose to the surface. Seems this is called a
methane field. It's theorized that an undersea quake could cause the
floor to shift enough to release a huge bubble of methane. They did some
research to show that a large enough methane bubble could easily sink a
ship. They also tested to see what effect it would have on a plane's
motor. On a large rotory engine, only 1% methane contamination was
required to cause the engine to quit. Less than 1% was enough
to cause an RPM drop. As it approaches 1%, sputtering occurs and then
finally, the engine quiets.

This theory, while unproven, seems to get some support because the
"Bermuda Triangle" appears to have large methane fields scattered
throughout.

They hoped to use this knowledge to locate planes which were lost during
WWII. Oddly, they found 5-planes, that crashed at 5-different times that
were all within 1.5 miles of each other, but no known methane field
exists in the area. When reviewing the paperwork of the discovered
planes, it appears that several of the planes did sputter and quit.
And, the flight of planes which they expected to find in a methane field,
were not found. Go figure.

It was an interesting story.

Greg Copeland writes:

On a large rotory engine, only 1% methane contamination was
required to cause the engine to quit. Less than 1% was enough
to cause an RPM drop. As it approaches 1%, sputtering occurs and then
finally, the engine quiets.

I'm not sure that I caught everything correctly when that was happening
but I thought someone said that the methane caused an over-rich mixture.
So...what happens if you lean the mixture?

--kyler

On Mon, 10 May 2004 15:08:09 +0000, Kyler Laird wrote:

Greg Copeland writes:

On a large rotory engine, only 1% methane contamination was
required to cause the engine to quit. Less than 1% was enough
to cause an RPM drop. As it approaches 1%, sputtering occurs and then
finally, the engine quiets.

I'm not sure that I caught everything correctly when that was happening
but I thought someone said that the methane caused an over-rich mixture.
So...what happens if you lean the mixture?

--kyler

I don't know. I'm honestly not sure it was associated with an overly rich
mixture. It may of been I simply missed the boat. Watching TV with a
family sometimes means you miss small portions of the show. If it was
caused by an overly rich mixture, it would of been nice to find out what
happened if they continued to lean it out, so as to present a possible
range. Interesting nonetheless.

I should also correct that it was a radial engine and not a
rotary engine. That was a brain-fart on my part. Sorry.

"Jay Beckman" wrote in message news:d_Bnc.17385$k24.10128@fed1read01...
"Martin" wrote in message
om...
Saw just a real short clip of something on the Disc channel tonight
about how methane clouds affect aircraft. Lower pressure causes the
plane to drop because of reduced lift, and the altimeter to read a
climb because of the pressure change. I think this show may have been
in the context of bermuda triangle stuff. Maybe Im just out of the
loop but I had never heard of this happening (flying into a cloud of
methane I mean). They seemed to have some pretty reputable people
talking about it. Anyone experience this or hear of it?


The main problem will be the motor will quit running because of the
lack of oxygen. The plane will fall from the skies for sure then.....
It's that gravity thing ya know. g

Martin,

It's a theory that's been "floating" around for some time, but mostly
regarding it's effect on ships.

They've modeled the effect of a methane mega-bubble on bouyancy and have
shown that a large ship would basically drop like a stone if it were to sail
across such a bubble. Hence no SOS, no life boats, no sign of ship or crew.

I'm just guessing, but I'm pretty sure there would have to be a similar
effect on an aircraft due to a decrease in air density?

FWIW...

Jay Beckman
Chandler, AZ