New Generation Vario's

All,


I am seeking contact with anyone who has recent experience with the any of
the latest generation of Vario (Butterfly, LX7, etc etc).


They do seem to full of many features that I will never use (apart from the
noise and the wiggly bit, I really only used a couple of things (wind and
final glide as a backup) on the 302 I was using in the Mozzie) as I find the
Oudie more than adequate for 'Compute' tasks.


Do the new devices add any value in things like gust rejection or wind
accuracy or anything that you find of personal value.


Am looking to possibly replace some older kit in an LS8 I am acquiring.


Regards


Richard

Richard,

I fly with a V7 and still have a 302 as well. The 302 is 99% as good as the V7. Unless you are racing I actually prefer the 302. It has better tones and of course has the logger as well. Why is the V7 1% better? It does have a better gust filter, so a few times a day it filters out false thermal the 302 does not.

If I was not racing I would buy a 302, it is a great value.

On Friday, 23 May 2014 09:15:40 UTC-4, Tim Taylor wrote:
Richard,



I fly with a V7 and still have a 302 as well. The 302 is 99% as good as the V7. Unless you are racing I actually prefer the 302. It has better tones and of course has the logger as well. Why is the V7 1% better? It does have a better gust filter, so a few times a day it filters out false thermal the 302 does not.



If I was not racing I would buy a 302, it is a great value.

Thanks Tim, thats good feedback.

On 05/23/2014 5:34 PM, Richard Frawley wrote:
On Friday, 23 May 2014 09:15:40 UTC-4, Tim Taylor wrote:
Richard,



I fly with a V7 and still have a 302 as well. The 302 is 99% as good as the V7. Unless you are racing I actually prefer the 302. It has better tones and of course has the logger as well. Why is the V7 1% better? It does have a better gust filter, so a few times a day it filters out false thermal the 302 does not.



If I was not racing I would buy a 302, it is a great value.

Thanks Tim, thats good feedback.


Hi Richard, I also fly with a V7 and a 302. I think a lot of our
opinions are based on previous experience so bear that in mind when
reading replies . Most of my flying has been with LX instruments and
I prefer the V7 audio tones over the 302. If you're used to and like
the CAI 302 then you may prefer the CnV.

Having flown with the gust filter for the last two seasons it is
"almost" a must have feature. I think it filters out closer to 5% of
false tries rather than 1% but Tim probably has a better feel for the
air than I do so YMMV. The vario works great out of the box but can
also be tweaked extensively to your liking . I can not comment on the
other new varios (Butterfly, CNV) as I have not flown with those.

The V7 has a built in FLARM display. When connected to a FLARM source
it will give you the standard LED circle display fo both FLAMR and
P-CAS* targets (*Powerflarm has a bug to work out with P-CAS data on the
DB9 connector but from what I hear the fix is already available in a
beta FW). Additionally the V7 can be configured to give you spoken
traffic advisories (traffic 12 0'clock high etc..) which makes it more
useful then a beep that makes you focus on the display and then back out
of the cockpit.

Luke Szczepaniak

On Monday, May 26, 2014 7:14:26 AM UTC-7, Luke Szczepaniak wrote:
On 05/23/2014 5:34 PM, Richard Frawley wrote:

On Friday, 23 May 2014 09:15:40 UTC-4, Tim Taylor wrote:

Richard,







I fly with a V7 and still have a 302 as well. The 302 is 99% as good as the V7. Unless you are racing I actually prefer the 302. It has better tones and of course has the logger as well. Why is the V7 1% better? It does have a better gust filter, so a few times a day it filters out false thermal the 302 does not.







If I was not racing I would buy a 302, it is a great value.



Thanks Tim, thats good feedback.





Hi Richard, I also fly with a V7 and a 302. I think a lot of our

opinions are based on previous experience so bear that in mind when

reading replies . Most of my flying has been with LX instruments and

I prefer the V7 audio tones over the 302. If you're used to and like

the CAI 302 then you may prefer the CnV.



Having flown with the gust filter for the last two seasons it is

"almost" a must have feature. I think it filters out closer to 5% of

false tries rather than 1% but Tim probably has a better feel for the

air than I do so YMMV. The vario works great out of the box but can

also be tweaked extensively to your liking . I can not comment on the

other new varios (Butterfly, CNV) as I have not flown with those.



The V7 has a built in FLARM display. When connected to a FLARM source

it will give you the standard LED circle display fo both FLAMR and

P-CAS* targets (*Powerflarm has a bug to work out with P-CAS data on the

DB9 connector but from what I hear the fix is already available in a

beta FW). Additionally the V7 can be configured to give you spoken

traffic advisories (traffic 12 0'clock high etc..) which makes it more

useful then a beep that makes you focus on the display and then back out

of the cockpit.



Luke Szczepaniak

That is a good point about the warning interface on modern various. I had too many buzzers in my glider, when a buzzer sounded you could spend quite a long time figuring out exactly what it meant. Now with my Butterfly Vario, a clear, attractive (!) voice says " LANDING GEAR NOT EXTENDED", or "TRAFFIC, 12 0'CLOCK, HIGH". Its hard to mistake that kind of warning.

I have a 302, a CN vario, and a V9 installed here and there so can compare these. I'm also very fussy about varios, as the CN people will attest.

The 302 is a very very good vario. But it's not in production and it's not as robust as the new ones. It has to be set up right and properly compensated.

Like all these varios it does not like leaks, it does not like flow varios on the same circuit, and it wants the pressures all coming from the same place, not the probe. If you have leaks, flow varios connected together, or you're not using pitot, static, and TE from the probe all these varios will disappoint.

The CN vario is also very very good. The first generation of the filtering software was, in my opinion, a bit better than 302. The second generation (last summer) removed a lot of bugs, but was a step backward in filtering, especially in strong weather and full of water. Now that the navigation stuff is behind them, I gather CN is working again on filtering. Frequent software updates and active development is a plus.

The V9 is a great vario out of the box. The filtering is excellent. It too needs to be set up right and correctly compensated.

It has one big downside for me so far. Where the CN and 302 vario are set up that "2 knots up" means "2 knots up" in both speed command and climb mode, the V9 tones in speed command are set to correspond to horizontal speed differences not vertical ones. It uses somehting like the same tone for "10 knots fast" that it does for "2 knots up." But in a modern glider, the speed to fly is much more sensitive to the lift value. So, bottom line, the tones swing around in speed command mode much more than they do in climb mode. Where this is a problem is when you slow down and sniff around but haven't decided to climb. In speed mode, you'll hear garbage, much too optimistic in lift. So, you have to set it up to switch to climb mode at about 70 knots.

All of these varios have hardware in them that could allow for amazing things, not yet implemented in software.

John Cochrane

On Thursday, May 22, 2014 10:23:18 PM UTC-7, Richard Frawley wrote:
All,





I am seeking contact with anyone who has recent experience with the any of

the latest generation of Vario (Butterfly, LX7, etc etc).





They do seem to full of many features that I will never use (apart from the

noise and the wiggly bit, I really only used a couple of things (wind and

final glide as a backup) on the 302 I was using in the Mozzie) as I find the

Oudie more than adequate for 'Compute' tasks.





Do the new devices add any value in things like gust rejection or wind

accuracy or anything that you find of personal value.





Am looking to possibly replace some older kit in an LS8 I am acquiring.





Regards





Richard

Richard,

I have both the V7 and the Butterfly Vario in my glider. I have approximately 300 hours flying with both. I also compared the V7 to the 302 several years ago and found the V7 was a much superior vario. The 302 showed false thermals approximately 20% of the time.

I also sell both the V7 and the Butterfly.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

The 302 showed false thermals approximately 20% of the time.

Richard (or anyone); I fly with a common total-energy vario. Please tell us what you mean by a "false thermal". Is this just a short duration signal or something else?
Thank you.

On Friday, May 23, 2014 9:44:19 AM UTC-7, Soartech wrote:
The 302 showed false thermals approximately 20% of the time.



Richard (or anyone); I fly with a common total-energy vario. Please tell us what you mean by a "false thermal". Is this just a short duration signal or something else?

Thank you.

The CAI 302 to me in the relative cruise mode would show lift that I would turn to center and no lift. Probably a gust.

Richard

The 302 went with the sale of the Mozzie. So it's a greenfield decision.

We fly a lot of blue days here (not too many mountains in Australia) often with variable wind. Instantaneous wind is very useful for turning accurately into wind to track the gravel line to thermal. Over a racing task every second saved counts!

Good feedback, thanks



n Friday, 23 May 2014 12:44:19 UTC-4, Soartech wrote:
The 302 showed false thermals approximately 20% of the time.



Richard (or anyone); I fly with a common total-energy vario. Please tell us what you mean by a "false thermal". Is this just a short duration signal or something else?

Thank you.