Damaged Certified into Homebuilt?

Can you buy a wrecked plane like a Cessna 172, repair it yourself & then get
it recertified to fly under Experimental?

Brad

Brad Mallard wrote:

Can you buy a wrecked plane like a Cessna 172, repair it yourself & then get
it recertified to fly under Experimental?

Brad

Not normally.

But if you strip off the skins, start from bare parts - and BUILD the
whole thing? Maybe. At least it has been done before.

But it's more work than you _can_ imagine...

Richard

On Fri, 14 May 2004 11:21:20 -0500, "Brad Mallard"
wrote:

Can you buy a wrecked plane like a Cessna 172, repair it yourself & then get
it recertified to fly under Experimental?

Certainly! Just come up with some sort of improvement, and license it as
Experimental/Research and Development or Experimental/Market Survey.

Of course, the certification of such aircraft isn't permanent, like
Experimental/Amateur-Built is. You'd have to apply for a new airworthiness
certificate every year. And approval is *not* automatic. And there'll
probably be restrictions on where you can fly and who can fly with you.
Kind of like the test-period restrictions for an Experimental/Amateur-Built
airplane, only permanent.

If you want to get the plane into the Experimental/Amateur-Built category,
you've got a more difficult task. You need to find an FAA rep who would
believe that the project met the "51% rule"...but your odds on that are
pretty remote. I met a guy once who claimed he'd gotten a C-150 into
Ex/Am, but when I suggested I write an article on his experience, he
clammed up.

Ron Wanttaja

On Fri, 14 May 2004 18:50:23 GMT, Ron Wanttaja
wrote:

On Fri, 14 May 2004 11:21:20 -0500, "Brad Mallard"
wrote:

Can you buy a wrecked plane like a Cessna 172, repair it yourself & then get
it recertified to fly under Experimental?

In one word... No.

Even if it's totally junked and you put it back together they will
call that maintenance.


Certainly! Just come up with some sort of improvement, and license it as
Experimental/Research and Development or Experimental/Market Survey.

Of course, the certification of such aircraft isn't permanent, like
Experimental/Amateur-Built is. You'd have to apply for a new airworthiness
certificate every year. And approval is *not* automatic. And there'll
probably be restrictions on where you can fly and who can fly with you.
Kind of like the test-period restrictions for an Experimental/Amateur-Built
airplane, only permanent.

If you want to get the plane into the Experimental/Amateur-Built category,
you've got a more difficult task. You need to find an FAA rep who would
believe that the project met the "51% rule"...but your odds on that are
pretty remote. I met a guy once who claimed he'd gotten a C-150 into
Ex/Am, but when I suggested I write an article on his experience, he
clammed up.

There was a "Lake", based at HTL that was modified extensively. It
used a Chevy V-8 (highly modified), had numerous structural changes
and was licensed either as an experimental.

However the guy had like 10 or 12 years into the project.

I don't know if it's still licensed or not and I'm not sure who to
ask. I can think of a couple who might have some info on it.

As I recall the conclusion was something to the effect, it wasn't
worth the effort.

At least it's a place to start looking. It was certified, but again
"as I recall" the paperwork and the hoops he had to jump through to
satisfy the 51% rule, turned it into a major project.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Ron Wanttaja

Roger is right, there are a number of experimental categories that
could be used.

And he is right they all need to be renewed. And that is the problem.
With each renewal you need a FAA rep or FAA DAR to write the ticket.
Getting that person is the tough part. Also you need to convince them
that it is a legit R&D project (have a test plan?) or it's a legit
showplane or it's a legit sales demonstration aircraft.

Also the FAA rep or DAR could and frequently DO, write restrictions on
your ticket. AS IN, "Can not fly over populated areas, restricted to
over water flights". OR "Restricted to area marked on attached
sectional". I have seen both, yes with my own eyes. And my DAR told
me he once restricted an exp to take off and landing over the river on
an airport that bordered a river, even if the wind indicated the other
approach.

It is their call.






Roger Halstead wrote in message . ..
On Fri, 14 May 2004 18:50:23 GMT, Ron Wanttaja
wrote:

On Fri, 14 May 2004 11:21:20 -0500, "Brad Mallard"
wrote:

Can you buy a wrecked plane like a Cessna 172, repair it yourself & then get
it recertified to fly under Experimental?

In one word... No.

Even if it's totally junked and you put it back together they will
call that maintenance.


Certainly! Just come up with some sort of improvement, and license it as
Experimental/Research and Development or Experimental/Market Survey.

Of course, the certification of such aircraft isn't permanent, like
Experimental/Amateur-Built is. You'd have to apply for a new airworthiness
certificate every year. And approval is *not* automatic. And there'll
probably be restrictions on where you can fly and who can fly with you.
Kind of like the test-period restrictions for an Experimental/Amateur-Built
airplane, only permanent.

If you want to get the plane into the Experimental/Amateur-Built category,
you've got a more difficult task. You need to find an FAA rep who would
believe that the project met the "51% rule"...but your odds on that are
pretty remote. I met a guy once who claimed he'd gotten a C-150 into
Ex/Am, but when I suggested I write an article on his experience, he
clammed up.

There was a "Lake", based at HTL that was modified extensively. It
used a Chevy V-8 (highly modified), had numerous structural changes
and was licensed either as an experimental.

However the guy had like 10 or 12 years into the project.

I don't know if it's still licensed or not and I'm not sure who to
ask. I can think of a couple who might have some info on it.

As I recall the conclusion was something to the effect, it wasn't
worth the effort.

At least it's a place to start looking. It was certified, but again
"as I recall" the paperwork and the hoops he had to jump through to
satisfy the 51% rule, turned it into a major project.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Ron Wanttaja

NO

"Brad Mallard" wrote in message
...
Can you buy a wrecked plane like a Cessna 172, repair it yourself & then
get
it recertified to fly under Experimental?

Brad

"Brad Mallard" wrote:

Can you buy a wrecked plane like a Cessna 172, repair it yourself & then get
it recertified to fly under Experimental?

Brad

The FAA Aircraft Registration database lists about four hundred Cessna
aircraft currently registered as Experimental. Of those, only the
following 14 Cessnas are registered as Experimental Amateur Built.

N-Number Model
90030 140
885DE 172G
29127 U206C
111CB 140
3763L 172G
3141B 170B
74JB 172M
188SA 188B
9RB 210F
1015V R172K
1SG 140
2182G 182A
111EX 172P
16VC 172N

David O -- http://www.AirplaneZone.com

David O wrote in message . ..
"Brad Mallard" wrote:

Can you buy a wrecked plane like a Cessna 172, repair it yourself & then get
it recertified to fly under Experimental?

Brad

The FAA Aircraft Registration database lists about four hundred Cessna
aircraft currently registered as Experimental. Of those, only the
following 14 Cessnas are registered as Experimental Amateur Built.

N-Number Model
90030 140
885DE 172G
29127 U206C
111CB 140
3763L 172G
3141B 170B
74JB 172M
188SA 188B
9RB 210F
1015V R172K
1SG 140
2182G 182A
111EX 172P
16VC 172N

David O -- http://www.AirplaneZone.com

OK Cy and Roger, Explain these??? A curious mind wants to know..

Ben

As I don't know these airplanes, I can't say. There is a Bellanca 14-13
that was rebuilt with a Ford engine for power that is registered as a
homebuilt. The wings were replaced with amateur built wings and this was
enough to meet the more than half rule. It really depends on the FSDO
person. There isn't any consistency. On the other hand, I could build a high
wing using Piper wings, Beech tail, turbine engine and register it as a
homebuilt Cessna 140 if I wish.

--
Cy Galley - Aeronca Aviators Club
Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
www.aeronca.org
Actively supporting Aeroncas every day
Dependable Timely Quarterly Newsletters


"Ben Haas" wrote in message
om...
David O wrote in message
. ..
"Brad Mallard" wrote:

Can you buy a wrecked plane like a Cessna 172, repair it yourself &
then get
it recertified to fly under Experimental?

Brad

The FAA Aircraft Registration database lists about four hundred Cessna
aircraft currently registered as Experimental. Of those, only the
following 14 Cessnas are registered as Experimental Amateur Built.

N-Number Model
90030 140
885DE 172G
29127 U206C
111CB 140
3763L 172G
3141B 170B
74JB 172M
188SA 188B
9RB 210F
1015V R172K
1SG 140
2182G 182A
111EX 172P
16VC 172N

David O -- http://www.AirplaneZone.com

OK Cy and Roger, Explain these??? A curious mind wants to know..

Ben

I looked up a couple of the planes...

N-Number Model
90030 140 --- Has rotoway engine
885DE 172G --- Rotax engine. I don't believe a 172 would fly with so little
power.

Cy Galley
Safety Programs Editor
Sport Pilot