What powered skills translate best to glider?

I'm just learning to fly and decided to start with gliders (aerotow launch). However, as I joined a club its slow to build time and get experience. I was wondering if I could accelerate that with powered flight...

1) What powered flight skills could I concentrate on that would best accelerate the learning curve in the glider?

2) Would it be a better option to drive farther to get motoglider experience, or would the more nearby powered craft be just as good?

TIA,
Joel

On Monday, September 14, 2015 at 5:33:17 PM UTC+3, Joel wrote:
I'm just learning to fly and decided to start with gliders (aerotow launch). However, as I joined a club its slow to build time and get experience. I was wondering if I could accelerate that with powered flight...

1) What powered flight skills could I concentrate on that would best accelerate the learning curve in the glider?

Touch and goes, aka "circuits".

Circuit planning and the touchdown itself are probably what holds most people up in getting to solo. The flare and holdoff and touchdown are only five seconds or so, and you can only do it once per flight.

But do it at a quiet airfield where you can do an approach every three minutes, not every 10 - 15 minutes. And vary the approaches, don't just do "perfect" ones every time. (Power instructors may be reluctant to do that .. they tend to like to go by the numbers)


2) Would it be a better option to drive farther to get motoglider experience, or would the more nearby powered craft be just as good?

Motorglider would be better, but small Cessna/Piper approach speeds of approx 60 knots are close enough to glider speeds (at least glass gliders). The difference in checklists is annoying. The biggest difference is probably how high your eyes are at touchdown. But it's not too hard to switch.

Either way, if you go and do an hour of circuits at a quiet place then you'll probably have the landing nailed.

On Monday, September 14, 2015 at 10:33:17 AM UTC-4, Joel wrote:
I'm just learning to fly and decided to start with gliders (aerotow launch). However, as I joined a club its slow to build time and get experience. I was wondering if I could accelerate that with powered flight...

1) What powered flight skills could I concentrate on that would best accelerate the learning curve in the glider?

2) Would it be a better option to drive farther to get motoglider experience, or would the more nearby powered craft be just as good?

TIA,
Joel

As mentioned, pattern work helps, I would try to find a place with a taildragger. Something like a J-3 cub, Citabria or similar that is light on the controls, has a side throttle (similar to a dive brake handle, throttle controls sink-rate, pitch controls speed), the tailwheel makes you use your feet, stick (not yoke) and a light wing loading keeps the speeds down.

A major difference between power vs. sailplane is wingspan vs. fuselage length.
Power is "close to square" thus limited adverse yaw.
Sailplanes tend to have spans close to twice fuselage length, thus more pronounced adverse yaw.

On Monday, September 14, 2015 at 6:39:06 PM UTC+3, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
On Monday, September 14, 2015 at 10:33:17 AM UTC-4, Joel wrote:
I'm just learning to fly and decided to start with gliders (aerotow launch). However, as I joined a club its slow to build time and get experience.. I was wondering if I could accelerate that with powered flight...

1) What powered flight skills could I concentrate on that would best accelerate the learning curve in the glider?

2) Would it be a better option to drive farther to get motoglider experience, or would the more nearby powered craft be just as good?

TIA,
Joel

As mentioned, pattern work helps, I would try to find a place with a taildragger. Something like a J-3 cub, Citabria or similar that is light on the controls, has a side throttle (similar to a dive brake handle, throttle controls sink-rate, pitch controls speed), the tailwheel makes you use your feet, stick (not yoke) and a light wing loading keeps the speeds down.

A major difference between power vs. sailplane is wingspan vs. fuselage length.
Power is "close to square" thus limited adverse yaw.
Sailplanes tend to have spans close to twice fuselage length, thus more pronounced adverse yaw.

Tiger Moth has very glider-like adverse yaw. But there are't a lot of them around now.

I don't think that's a big deal though, and neither are stick vs yoke or throttle position. Sure, that's all good if you can find a suitable plane, but there are a LOT more Cessnas around. The big thing, I think, is getting used to TLAR and dealing with when it doesn't look right, and how the ground looks when it's time to flare -- and practice with the actual hold-off.

Aerotows give you pretty good practice with extended flying near to the ground, and it's also good to do a lot of "hangar landings" at some point, with very little to no airbrake so you have even 20 or 30 seconds of practice in the hold-off.

On Monday, September 14, 2015 at 10:33:17 AM UTC-4, Joel wrote:
I'm just learning to fly and decided to start with gliders (aerotow launch). However, as I joined a club its slow to build time and get experience. I was wondering if I could accelerate that with powered flight...

1) What powered flight skills could I concentrate on that would best accelerate the learning curve in the glider?

2) Would it be a better option to drive farther to get motoglider experience, or would the more nearby powered craft be just as good?

TIA,
Joel

Buy CONDOR simulator program, USB stick and rudder pedals, and use the flight training part, in conjunction with your real-world training.

On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 at 1:17:45 AM UTC+3, Dan Daly wrote:
On Monday, September 14, 2015 at 10:33:17 AM UTC-4, Joel wrote:
I'm just learning to fly and decided to start with gliders (aerotow launch). However, as I joined a club its slow to build time and get experience.. I was wondering if I could accelerate that with powered flight...

1) What powered flight skills could I concentrate on that would best accelerate the learning curve in the glider?

2) Would it be a better option to drive farther to get motoglider experience, or would the more nearby powered craft be just as good?

TIA,
Joel

Buy CONDOR simulator program, USB stick and rudder pedals, and use the flight training part, in conjunction with your real-world training.

And race people online -- it's very cool.

We have pedals with Condor at the club, where we have an old Cirrus cockpit hooked up to Condor and a very large TV (80" maybe?). The Cirrus' stick, pedals, airbrakes, trim, and undercarriage are all connected to Condor. Works nicely, and any trial flight people who look serious get a sim session before their flight.

At home I just use a USB gaming stick with twist for rudder and it's fine.

I had a student that flew the glider in Microsoft flight simulator. He picked up aero tow very quickly. But then most kids good with video games will have good eye hand coordination.

Hardest parts are aero tow and landings.
BillT

On Monday, September 14, 2015 at 6:17:45 PM UTC-4, Dan Daly wrote:


Buy CONDOR simulator program, USB stick and rudder pedals, and use the flight training part, in conjunction with your real-world training.

I'll second that. I'm currently training my son in gliders (13 years old). I introduce a concept (right now we're fine-tuning crosswind takeoffs and landings) in Condor. He practices a little during the week, and when we get to the airport on the weekend he's already been through the particular objectives several times. Plus, I can vary the conditions so he has to think through the situation.

I'm a CFI-G living in the same house as the student, so that provides some advantage. But, as long as you are diligent about process and pay attention to whatever syllabus you are using, sim time on Condor is hugely effective.

Erik Mann (P3)

Wow, this is an excellent newsgroup with lots of helpful folks and even details replies. Thanks for the input.

I'll look into Condor, the FSX glider wasn't helping with the feel of the controls much (non-crisp Schweitzer 233 trainer), but I imagine its more useful regarding positioning during landing.

My options appear to be a Tomahawk or the like with a CFIG, or maybe an Aviat Husky taildragger with a CFI. I think landings with the CFIG sounds like good practice for me, the instructor will probably be able to help replicate glider landings like Cindy suggested.

Cheers,
J

On Tuesday, September 15, 2015 at 11:58:18 AM UTC-7, wrote:

My options appear to be a Tomahawk or the like with a CFIG, or maybe an Aviat Husky taildragger with a CFI. I think landings with the CFIG sounds like good practice for me, the instructor will probably be able to help replicate glider landings like Cindy suggested.

Cheers,
J

I have an Aviat Husky and would recommend it over the Tomahawk - with reservations. The Husky is relatively complex compared to most training aircraft.. Perhaps more importantly, the instructor, unless built like a spidermonkey, will not have a great view of the instrument panel or access to controls save for stick, rudder, throttle transmit button, and slapping the backside of your head. Everything else will be your baby; mixture, prop, mags, flaps, all radio gear, engine monitoring, etc. This can present quite a load to a beginning student pilot who's active brain cells will often be near saturation learning to start the engine and taxi safely. I've heard a few instructors make unfavorable remarks re. the Husky's suitability as a primary trainer due to this.

I will say that if you learn to fly the Husky with finesse, you should be able to step into most any single engine with a minimum of fuss. Not because the Husky is all that difficult, it's an honest plane, but it isn't a pussycat. Oh, and for shear fun it'll spoil you for most other power planes!