Help me convince my wife..... :)

So.. I bought a share in a 1-35 this winter. I've already had a blast in it this season. I own just 1/4 of it, so not much of an outlay of cash.

I've got the disease pretty bad. I'm interested now in going halves with another club member on something glass and in the 40+ l/d

Lets say a ASW24. I've rented one before at Williams, and had fun in it.

With my own glass ship that travels well, I could hit FL and SW areas in the winter. My job allows me to float about the country pretty easy. In other words, take the glider to FL, work a week out of FL, then fly a few days and bring it back home.

So my wife.. while not being very EXCITED about the prospect of me spending 25 or so thousand dollars on a glider hasn't thrown fits. BUT... she took me for a loop today.

She said, what about just going places to rent? I countered with the fact that many places were clubs, and many places were not renting high performance stuff like that.

When she heard CLUB.. she just said.... well, for the money you are spending, you could join at a couple clubs around the country and travel to them each once a year.

UHHHHH...

now.. off the top of my head, the depreciation on a well cared for glass ship is pretty low, what maybe 2k a year 3 at most? Then throw in my half of insurance and mtx.. call it another grand or two. That's a couple to three thousand a year.

Any help here?

Please.

JP

JP,
Interesting dilemma. Here are some "deep thoughts:"

1. An older glider like an ASW24 will probably not depreciate very much at this point. If you buy one today and sell it in a few years you may get close to the same price you paid for it, so a $2-3K annual depreciation may be a bit too pessimistic (assuming you take good care of it)!

2. Joining various clubs around the country is an interesting idea, but reality tells me that it may not be the right option. For example, monthly dues will have to be paid. Many clubs have sizable initiation fees to join. More importantly many clubs (right or wrong) limit the use of clubs ships for X-C use. Some are better than others in this regard, but your X-C flying may be limited. Dare I say, I also believe there may be some hesitation in clubs to have someone from out of state decide to "suddenly" show up, take a club ship and go cross country. Just think how the "local" club members will feel if you damage the ship in a land-out and then the local club members lose the ship for the season....It would not be pretty....

3. Using various club ships will not really allow you get the comfort and familiarity that you would get in your own ship. It is critical that you get comfortable in a ship's handling and performance especially if you want to do some serious X-C soaring. This is also very important to allow you to fly safely and this is something I am sure your spouse would want you to do....

4. Owning your own ship allows you to equip it with the avionics you choose.. In clubs ships you have no choice on how it is equipped. Now, I know you can carry a few items like an Oudie with you, but it is absolutely not the same as being able to fly a ship regularly with equipment that you know how to properly use. Again, this "familiarity" tracks with #3 above.

So, I do believe that the "club" idea might sound reasonable, but I do believe that in reality the odds of success would be quite low.

Now, this all being said, if you cannot afford a ship (or do not want to invest in one at this point in time), it might be worth investigating this club idea a bit further. In addition, one could explore renting from commercial operations that do rent high-performance ships such as at: SoaringNV at Minden and Sundance Aviation at Moriarty!

OK...that's my 2 or 3 cents...Good luck!

Thx - Renny
(Flying glider #6)

On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 10:58:08 AM UTC-6, wrote:
So.. I bought a share in a 1-35 this winter. I've already had a blast in it this season. I own just 1/4 of it, so not much of an outlay of cash.

I've got the disease pretty bad. I'm interested now in going halves with another club member on something glass and in the 40+ l/d

Lets say a ASW24. I've rented one before at Williams, and had fun in it.

With my own glass ship that travels well, I could hit FL and SW areas in the winter. My job allows me to float about the country pretty easy. In other words, take the glider to FL, work a week out of FL, then fly a few days and bring it back home.

So my wife.. while not being very EXCITED about the prospect of me spending 25 or so thousand dollars on a glider hasn't thrown fits. BUT... she took me for a loop today.

She said, what about just going places to rent? I countered with the fact that many places were clubs, and many places were not renting high performance stuff like that.

When she heard CLUB.. she just said.... well, for the money you are spending, you could join at a couple clubs around the country and travel to them each once a year.

UHHHHH...

now.. off the top of my head, the depreciation on a well cared for glass ship is pretty low, what maybe 2k a year 3 at most? Then throw in my half of insurance and mtx.. call it another grand or two. That's a couple to three thousand a year.

Any help here?

Please.

JP

At 16:58 23 May 2016, wrote:
So.. I bought a share in a 1-35 this winter. I've already had a
blast in
it this season. I own just 1/4 of it, so not much of an outlay of
cash.

I've got the disease pretty bad. I'm interested now in going
halves with
another club member on something glass and in the 40+ l/d

Lets say a ASW24. I've rented one before at Williams, and had
fun in it.

With my own glass ship that travels well, I could hit FL and SW
areas in
the winter. My job allows me to float about the country pretty
easy. In
other words, take the glider to FL, work a week out of FL, then
fly a few
days and bring it back home.

So my wife.. while not being very EXCITED about the prospect of
me spending
25 or so thousand dollars on a glider hasn't thrown fits. BUT...
she took
me for a loop today.

She said, what about just going places to rent? I countered with
the fact
that many places were clubs, and many places were not renting
high
performance stuff like that.

When she heard CLUB.. she just said.... well, for the money you
are
spending, you could join at a couple clubs around the country
and travel to
them each once a year.

UHHHHH...

now.. off the top of my head, the depreciation on a well cared for
glass
ship is pretty low, what maybe 2k a year 3 at most? Then throw
in my half
of insurance and mtx.. call it another grand or two. That's a
couple to
three thousand a year.

Any help here?

Please.

JP


I think I made money on most of the Gliders I owned, I only lost
money on the ASH 25.

But the real benefit of owning rather than renting or club Gliders is
availability. The gliders only users are you and your syndicate
partners, so you can work out between you when it is available.

Next the instruments are to your liking and you know how they
work, and the Batteries are kept in good condition, you can make
yourself comfortable, its your parachute which you can get
comfortable in.

You can get to know how the Glider handles and enter
competitions.

If you are just flying the odd hour now and then a club glider is
fine and cost effective, if you want to break records and fly all day
you can't beat your own glider.
Max

Economic and practical arguments are good. But don't forget safety - swapping aircraft regularly will increase your chance of getting it wrong down low. You need your own ship to get intimately familiar with its flying behaviour. There are probably some other irrefutable safety benefits if you think hard. Knowledge of parachute history and aircraft maintenance?
Of course play this card carefully and know your audience - for instance if you spent 6 months convincing her that gliding is not dangerous then maybe disregard this argument line!

Cheers Ben

JP,
In most clubs, you are required to do some kind of duty as part of your club membrship. That has to be taken into account if you fly with various clubs.

Also. as Renny mentioned, club members will not be happy with you if you "prang" one of their gliders and take it out of flying status for the season.

Another consideration is that you will never have access to the glider you want to fly on the really good days because other members will be clamoring to fly that particular glider too, especially if it's relatively high performance.

To reiterate what Renny said, you need to be very familiar with a glider if you are going to do any serious XC safely. Switching gliders could get you in serious trouble in high stress situations like landing out. "What side is the gear actuation handle?"

I have never regreted buying my own glider. After 15 years I could sell it for the same amount paid 15 years ago.

Chuck Zabinski
"ZC"

Maybe you should make it a fair deal - offer to buy her an equivalent gift.

Then give her a new Cobra to follow you around with!

Cheers Ben...always seeking equality in gliding

On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 5:39:55 PM UTC-7, Ben Coleman wrote:
Maybe you should make it a fair deal - offer to buy her an equivalent gift.

On Monday, 23 May 2016 18:51:21 UTC-6, Ramy wrote:
On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 5:39:55 PM UTC-7, Ben Coleman wrote:
Maybe you should make it a fair deal - offer to buy her an equivalent gift.

Then give her a new Cobra to follow you around with!

Cheers Ben...always seeking equality in gliding

A new Cobra and a nice SUV that is...

I started flying gliders believing that I'll be able to fly wherever and whenever I want by joining clubs, just as I used to when I flew hang gliders. I joined at least 4 clubs/FBO's in my first year but quickly realized that if I am serious about soaring, owning my own glider is the only way to go. With very few exceptions in the US (BASA is one of them), non owners club members rarely get to fly cross country or even get significant soaring time.

Ramy

What Ramy and others have said. clubs are not a path for cheap access to glider rentals. Much behind the scene activities occur at clubs to allow people to learn, fly and mentor others. There are only a few commercial operations around the US that have the resources or ability to maintain a rental pool.

Time to pay the piper

Time to pay the Piper.. I had to laugh. Coincidentally.. my name.

My wife is frugal, and would never let me buy her a toy. She's got the cash sitting in the bank for her next vehicle.. hers turns 10 this year.

I haven't gotten her out to the field to check it out yet. She has less than zero interest in going for a glider ride.

We'll see what my potential syndicate partner says. You never know who's gonna come out of the woodwork when you start talking about sharing a good toy.

JP

If money is the main hindrance and you want to fly cross country for leisure and not compete in competitions, have you considered some of the early glass ships that are in the 40+:1 range?
There are some LAK 12's and a 101 Pegase A for sale for $15000 or less on Wings and Wheels.
For $18000 and under you could be flying an Open Cirrus, Speed Astir, T.59D Kestrel, etc.
Yes, some of them may have handling quirks and may not be as nice as the more expensive, newer glass ships but there is still plenty of fun to be had in them at a much lower cost.

I was in a similar situation so I purchased an airworthy Nimbus 2 and nice trailer for approximately $8200 (at current exchange rate). While the handling may not be be every one's cup of tea, it's plenty of bang for the buck without breaking the bank or upsetting the wife.
Club rentals and part ownership was not an option since I just don't trust other people with something that my life depends on. I've seen too many hard landings and glider abuse go unreported and not inspected. Then there is the issue of each member wanting the glider at the same time.

Partnerships work for some people but I'd think that option over very carefully if you plan to fly long cross country flights every weekend.