Winch Way Is Up !!

It's intriguing how much attention any post about winch launching seems to
generate here on RAS. I must admit I, like most here in the USA, cried
"foul" or was it"fool" any time one would suggest that winching could be
a viable alternative to the much perferred aero tow. Shame on me. Perhaps
it's time to lift our head out of the herd and get a new view. The recent
thread on which type of launch is safest seemed to conclude that each
launch is equally dangerous if done improperly and each launch is safe
when done properly. Problem is we in the USA don't know what we are
doing and learning can be a painful experience. Painful perhaps, but
worth it.
Here is my story. Soaring in West Texas had been on the decline for
the past fifteen years. Only a handful of sailplanes left,(four to be
exact), and no tow plane in sight. Sounding familiar? Well that was two
years ago. We simply did not have the money to purchase a tow plane or
the activity to attract a commercial operation. Our salvation was a
GOOD WINCH. The story of building a good winch and learning to operate
it could take up most the rest of the winter. However the proof is in
pudding, or in this case the bank account. Our club has more than tripled
in membership and is growing. We are able to support our activities and
flying is on the rebound in West Texas. Aero tow will always have a
place but do not discount what a GOOD WINCH can do for soaring in your
club. The economics simply cannot be overlooked. Winches generate real
revenue and provide for more flights for the buck than any other method
of launch, and can do it just as safely as aero tow.

Cheers,

Craig

In article ,
(Craig Freeman) wrote:

It's intriguing how much attention any post about winch launching seems to
generate here on RAS. I must admit I, like most here in the USA, cried
"foul" or was it"fool" any time one would suggest that winching could be
a viable alternative to the much perferred aero tow. Shame on me. Perhaps
it's time to lift our head out of the herd and get a new view. The recent
thread on which type of launch is safest seemed to conclude that each
launch is equally dangerous if done improperly and each launch is safe
when done properly. Problem is we in the USA don't know what we are
doing and learning can be a painful experience. Painful perhaps, but
worth it.
Here is my story. Soaring in West Texas had been on the decline for
the past fifteen years. Only a handful of sailplanes left,(four to be
exact), and no tow plane in sight. Sounding familiar? Well that was two
years ago. We simply did not have the money to purchase a tow plane or
the activity to attract a commercial operation. Our salvation was a
GOOD WINCH. The story of building a good winch and learning to operate
it could take up most the rest of the winter. However the proof is in
pudding, or in this case the bank account. Our club has more than tripled
in membership and is growing. We are able to support our activities and
flying is on the rebound in West Texas. Aero tow will always have a
place but do not discount what a GOOD WINCH can do for soaring in your
club. The economics simply cannot be overlooked. Winches generate real
revenue and provide for more flights for the buck than any other method
of launch, and can do it just as safely as aero tow.

Cheers,

Craig


Well said Craig,

The significance of your putting the phrase "GOOD WINCH" in all caps may
be lost on some who have not had the pleasure of launching from or
driving a well designed and well made winch. I believe that much of the
negative attitude about winches in the USA comes from our experience
with poorly designed and built winches. Just about anyone can cobble
together a winch that will launch a 1-26 once a day. It takes more
thought and good engineering to produce a machine that will efficiently
launch heavy two-seaters all day, day in and day out. Winches ain't
rocket science and there is no need to reinvent the wheel. The
characteristics of a good winch are well known. Just take a look at the
European winches. Or, in the USA, go visit the Memphis soaring club.
They now have the winch that once belonged to my club (we had to give it
up due to moving to an airport with crossing runways - no room for winch
cable). I miss the winch.

Actually, for small operations, auto tow using a pulley on the tow car
is just as good (or better than) a winch and a heck of a lot cheaper.
With 4000 ft of dacron rope you can routinely launch to 1600-2000 agl or
more depending on the glider and headwind. The beauty of the pulley
launch is the towcar only needs to go 25-30 miles/hour at most. Thus,
you don't have to have pavement and it is easier on the car. Use an
automatic transmission vehicle and just keep it in low gear. Nothing
simpler than that. Ground launch this way requires a wing runner, a
towcar driver, and a spotter minimum. The turnaround time is slower than
a winch. You will also need a fairly wide area too as you will have
little control over where the rope falls. Still, we have done as many as
30 launches in a day with the pulley auto launch.

Actually, Craig is being too modest. In a few months of spare time work this
spring, he single-handedly engineered and built a double drum machine that is
the smoothest, sweetest running winch I've ever driven. It's orders of
magnitude better than the barnyard bailing wire wonders that we sometimes have
to work with. And with 5000 ft of Plasma plastic rope spooled on, not only are
our winch worries at an end, we have also eliminated any remaining headaches
from the tow line part of the launch method.

Sure, he's still got a few bugs to be worked out over the winter, like will
the electrical system pull the air conditioner all day long, but I'm sure that
Craig will quickly solve this problem also.

No kidding, next spring there will be doors and an air conditioner on there.
Right, Craig?

Here's where you can gaze upon this wondrous machine:

Click "photos" (duh)

http://www.permiansoaring.us/

BJ

Craig Freeman wrote:

It's intriguing how much attention any post about winch launching seems to
generate here on RAS. I must admit I, like most here in the USA, cried
"foul" or was it"fool" any time one would suggest that winching could be
a viable alternative to the much perferred aero tow. Shame on me. Perhaps
it's time to lift our head out of the herd and get a new view. The recent
thread on which type of launch is safest seemed to conclude that each
launch is equally dangerous if done improperly and each launch is safe
when done properly. Problem is we in the USA don't know what we are
doing and learning can be a painful experience. Painful perhaps, but
worth it.
Here is my story. Soaring in West Texas had been on the decline for
the past fifteen years. Only a handful of sailplanes left,(four to be
exact), and no tow plane in sight. Sounding familiar? Well that was two
years ago. We simply did not have the money to purchase a tow plane or
the activity to attract a commercial operation. Our salvation was a
GOOD WINCH. The story of building a good winch and learning to operate
it could take up most the rest of the winter. However the proof is in
pudding, or in this case the bank account. Our club has more than tripled
in membership and is growing. We are able to support our activities and
flying is on the rebound in West Texas. Aero tow will always have a
place but do not discount what a GOOD WINCH can do for soaring in your
club. The economics simply cannot be overlooked. Winches generate real
revenue and provide for more flights for the buck than any other method
of launch, and can do it just as safely as aero tow.

Cheers,

Craig

Bob Johnson wrote:
Actually, Craig is being too modest. In a few months of spare time work this
spring, he single-handedly engineered and built a double drum machine...

Whats the point of the second drum? Great pics, BTW).

Tony V. (aero tows ~1300, winch tows)

Tony --

Well that's a long story. Right now it balances the view! 8)

BJ

Tony Verhulst wrote:

Bob Johnson wrote:
Actually, Craig is being too modest. In a few months of spare time work this
spring, he single-handedly engineered and built a double drum machine...

Whats the point of the second drum? Great pics, BTW).

Tony V. (aero tows ~1300, winch tows)

"Tony Verhulst" wrote in message
...
Bob Johnson wrote:
Actually, Craig is being too modest. In a few months of spare time work
this
spring, he single-handedly engineered and built a double drum machine...

Whats the point of the second drum? Great pics, BTW).

Tony V. (aero tows ~1300, winch tows)

http://www.soarcsa.org/pdf/winch_proposal.pdf

Have a look at page 10. Look at the number of vertical feet a two drum
winch can achieve. No tow plane can match this. Here's a good example
http://www.cotswoldgliding.co.uk/ of 200 members using winch launch, but
with a tow plane for wave tows. There are also a substantial number of
private gliders in the club. Prior to using the winch, they using reverse
pulley auto tows.

Launch rate is important, given a large number of gliders. Dragging two or
more wires to the launch point is the only sensible way to do this.
Differential are not really the best solution as they do burn up fairly
quickly if one side is locked. Transfer cases and dog clutches are fairly
common solutions.

Frank Whiteley

http://terlet.org/fotosbig/p522.jpg

"Gerritjan" wrote in message
...
http://terlet.org/fotosbig/p522.jpg

More data please!

Bill Daniels

http://terlet.org/fotosbig/p522.jpg

More data please!

This is a 6-drum "van Gelder" diesel winch as used by several european
clubs....

Gerritjan wrote:

http://terlet.org/fotosbig/p522.jpg

More data please!

This is a 6-drum "van Gelder" diesel winch as used by several european
clubs....

Several european clubs would *dream* of such a winch. Most have a double
drum tost or home build winch, some 20 or more years old, only kept running
by some experienced mechanics who know the vital parts in the dark night.
Eggert