Be ready for the worst!

Be ready for the worst:

I totaled my ASW-28 last summer. The next day while I was "out of it" in the
hospital, the Feds (FAA-FISDO not the NTSB {because I didn't get killed I
guess}) inspected the damaged glider and removed all paperwork and my
smashed PDA. A few weeks later they returned all by mail with a formal form
letter thanking me and no other comment. This is the absolute best case
scenario I could have hoped for. Of course it was not admitted but I am
convinced that this was a compliment for my paperwork thoroughness. I had
luckily gone through my annual checklist at the beginning of the season.

This is a warning to remind you to check your paperwork. Here is what I had
in my glider, all required.

1. Glider Log book (up to date)

In a pouch in the back of the log book was:

2. Pink Airworthiness Certificate (Experimental-Racing & Exhibition)

3. Six page 34 item provisions for above

4. Program letter for current year (copy of one that went to FISDO)

5. Exemption letter (for absence of ID on exterior tail),(Expired)

6. Extension letter for the expired exemption letter.

7. Weight and Balance

I did not have the Aircraft Flight Manual aboard. I knew it was required but
took a chance and left this bulky item at home.

It's not exactly "paperwork" but don't forget the placards in the cockpit
area. Feds love to check them (it's a no-brainer for them).

Check your paperwork. Don't give them an excuse to nail you.



The above is bad enough but what about insurance?

The day after my boo-boo my friends collected the bones in the trailer, took
them to a safe place and called my insurance Co (AIG).

In a couple of days an adjuster came to inspect and take photos and with a
request to me for copies of:

1. FAA license

2. Current Medical (Yeah I know it's not required but it was requested)

3. Current BFR

4. Last five pages of my personal flight log book, especially the page
showing where an instructor signed me off for the type glider in question.

5. Front page and last two pages of Glider log book showing current
annual (conditional in this case).

When able I sent all this stuff. Thank goodness everything was up to date.

Then they could not have been nicer. They arranged to pick up the bones (no
questions about it being totaled) and sent me a full check immediately. I
had it insured for what it cost me, which of course was now underinsured I
reminded them that the trailer was not insured by them and was not included.
No problem.

Same warning. Don't give the insurance company a chance to mail you.

Ed Byars

Glad to have you back Ed! Hope you're fully back in
flying form and have found a new ride.

Seems like there has been an uptick in FAA inspections
for paperwork - and not just in cases of accidents.

BTW, did anybody check the repack date on your 'chute,
or is that only in cases where you actually used it?

9B


At 17:12 28 March 2004, Ed Byars wrote:




Be ready for the worst:

I totaled my ASW-28 last summer. The next day while
I was 'out of it' in the
hospital, the Feds (FAA-FISDO not the NTSB {because
I didn't get killed I
guess}) inspected the damaged glider and removed all
paperwork and my
smashed PDA. A few weeks later they returned all by
mail with a formal form
letter thanking me and no other comment. This is the
absolute best case
scenario I could have hoped for. Of course it was not
admitted but I am
convinced that this was a compliment for my paperwork
thoroughness. I had
luckily gone through my annual checklist at the beginning
of the season.

This is a warning to remind you to check your paperwork.
Here is what I had
in my glider, all required.

1. Glider Log book (up to date)

In a pouch in the back of the log book was:

2. Pink Airworthiness Certificate (Experimental-Racing
& Exhibition)

3. Six page 34 item provisions for above

4. Program letter for current year (copy of one that
went to FISDO)

5. Exemption letter (for absence of ID on exterior
tail),(Expired)

6. Extension letter for the expired exemption letter.

7. Weight and Balance

I did not have the Aircraft Flight Manual aboard. I
knew it was required but
took a chance and left this bulky item at home.

It's not exactly 'paperwork' but don't forget the
placards in the cockpit
area. Feds love to check them (it's a no-brainer for
them).

Check your paperwork. Don't give them an excuse to
nail you.



The above is bad enough but what about insurance?

The day after my boo-boo my friends collected the bones
in the trailer, took
them to a safe place and called my insurance Co (AIG).

In a couple of days an adjuster came to inspect and
take photos and with a
request to me for copies of:

1. FAA license

2. Current Medical (Yeah I know it's not required
but it was requested)

3. Current BFR

4. Last five pages of my personal flight log book,
especially the page
showing where an instructor signed me off for the type
glider in question.

5. Front page and last two pages of Glider log
book showing current
annual (conditional in this case).

When able I sent all this stuff. Thank goodness everything
was up to date.

Then they could not have been nicer. They arranged
to pick up the bones (no
questions about it being totaled) and sent me a full
check immediately. I
had it insured for what it cost me, which of course
was now underinsured I
reminded them that the trailer was not insured by them
and was not included.
No problem.

Same warning. Don't give the insurance company a chance
to mail you.

Ed Byars

"Ed Byars" wrote in message
ink.net...



Thanks for the nice reminder. I have a couple of questions embedded below.



Be ready for the worst:

This is a warning to remind you to check your paperwork. Here is what I
had
in my glider, all required.

1. Glider Log book (up to date)


I was not aware that the glider log book is required to be in the aircraft.
Are you sure that this is true? What regulation requires this?


In a pouch in the back of the log book was:

2. Pink Airworthiness Certificate (Experimental-Racing & Exhibition)

3. Six page 34 item provisions for above

4. Program letter for current year (copy of one that went to FISDO)

5. Exemption letter (for absence of ID on exterior tail),(Expired)

6. Extension letter for the expired exemption letter.

7. Weight and Balance

I did not have the Aircraft Flight Manual aboard. I knew it was required
but
took a chance and left this bulky item at home.


I am not aware that the flight manual is required to be in the aircraft. I
believe that all of the information that I am required to have on board is
contained on my placards (which are complete, including the weight and
balance limits). The placards are what my operating limitations address,
and as the aircraft is not certified, there is no such thing as an "approved
flight manual".



It's not exactly "paperwork" but don't forget the placards in the cockpit
area. Feds love to check them (it's a no-brainer for them).

Check your paperwork. Don't give them an excuse to nail you.



The above is bad enough but what about insurance?

The day after my boo-boo my friends collected the bones in the trailer,
took
them to a safe place and called my insurance Co (AIG).

In a couple of days an adjuster came to inspect and take photos and with a
request to me for copies of:

1. FAA license

2. Current Medical (Yeah I know it's not required but it was
requested)

3. Current BFR

4. Last five pages of my personal flight log book, especially the page
showing where an instructor signed me off for the type glider in question.

5. Front page and last two pages of Glider log book showing current
annual (conditional in this case).

When able I sent all this stuff. Thank goodness everything was up to date.

Then they could not have been nicer. They arranged to pick up the bones
(no
questions about it being totaled) and sent me a full check immediately. I
had it insured for what it cost me, which of course was now underinsured I
reminded them that the trailer was not insured by them and was not
included.
No problem.

Same warning. Don't give the insurance company a chance to mail you.

Ed Byars

Michael McNulty wrote:
I am not aware that the flight manual is required to be in the aircraft. I
believe that all of the information that I am required to have on board is
contained on my placards (which are complete, including the weight and
balance limits). The placards are what my operating limitations address,
and as the aircraft is not certified, there is no such thing as an "approved
flight manual".

Check you operating limitations again. Every set I've had has included
a clause that requires carrying the manufacturers flight manual, along
with the placards.

Marc

"Marc Ramsey" wrote in message
. com...
Michael McNulty wrote:
I am not aware that the flight manual is required to be in the aircraft.
I
believe that all of the information that I am required to have on board
is
contained on my placards (which are complete, including the weight and
balance limits). The placards are what my operating limitations
address,
and as the aircraft is not certified, there is no such thing as an
"approved
flight manual".

Check you operating limitations again. Every set I've had has included
a clause that requires carrying the manufacturers flight manual, along
with the placards.

Marc

I just double checked.

My operating limitations do say that I must have "the placards, markings,
etc. required by 91.9" , but there is not any specific reference to the
flight manual. Since my aircraft is experimental, an "approved flight
manual" does not exist, and I fully believe that my placards meet the
requirements of 91.9 for "approved manual material, markings, and placards
or any combination thereof". Again, the relevant document is the aircraft's
particular operating limitations. My operating limitations do require a
specific placard that states the weight and balance limits, Vne, and Va.
(My operating limitations were issued in October 2001, and I believe that
they follow the FAA inspectors handbook guidelines very closely.)

I suppose I could carry a copy of the manual, but I think I'm on pretty
solid ground without it.

If I remember correctly (not too likely) the Manufacturer's Flight Manual
says something like " this manual must be keep in aircraft". Also upon
review I could find no specific Reg requiring aircraft log book to be in
aircraft. It is however, the first thing the Feds will request.
I know in power craft we never carry the paperwork/log briefcase in the
airplane. We even kid with friends making them promise to burn all the
records in case we crash.
Since the glider has no recording tach or Hobbs it's been a habit of mine
for decades to keep the log in the glider where I can keep it current after
each flight.
I would like to check my op. limitations but they went with the glider.
Incidentally I used a small font, reducing Xerox, and both sides to condense
the bulky multi page operating limitations to an almost illegible but a neat
card or two for the cockpit. Same for most other paperwork.
It's interesting to speculate if the placards referring to cockpit weights
will suffice for the W&B requirement.
Also I've heard that we are required only to "show" the Paperwork, not
surrender it. Is this just for the license on a ramp check or for all
"paperwork"? I sure didn't have any choice when they removed everything from
my glider in my absence. I feel sure they were within their rights. Weren't
they?
Remember the FAA motto: We're not happy until you're not happy. I'm
kidding.........some of my best friends are with the FAA.


"Michael McNulty" wrote in message
news:6vF9c.6663$GH3.1276@fed1read07...

"Marc Ramsey" wrote in message
. com...
Michael McNulty wrote:
I am not aware that the flight manual is required to be in the
aircraft.
I
believe that all of the information that I am required to have on
board
is
contained on my placards (which are complete, including the weight and
balance limits). The placards are what my operating limitations
address,
and as the aircraft is not certified, there is no such thing as an
"approved
flight manual".

Check you operating limitations again. Every set I've had has included
a clause that requires carrying the manufacturers flight manual, along
with the placards.

Marc

I just double checked.

My operating limitations do say that I must have "the placards, markings,
etc. required by 91.9" , but there is not any specific reference to the
flight manual. Since my aircraft is experimental, an "approved flight
manual" does not exist, and I fully believe that my placards meet the
requirements of 91.9 for "approved manual material, markings, and placards
or any combination thereof". Again, the relevant document is the
aircraft's
particular operating limitations. My operating limitations do require a
specific placard that states the weight and balance limits, Vne, and Va.
(My operating limitations were issued in October 2001, and I believe that
they follow the FAA inspectors handbook guidelines very closely.)

I suppose I could carry a copy of the manual, but I think I'm on pretty
solid ground without it.

Since the glider has no recording tach or Hobbs it's been a habit of mine
for decades to keep the log in the glider where I can keep it current after
each flight.

My glider is registered Experimental and the Operations Limitations state that
the log book must be kept in the aircraft.

I specifically asked the FAA whether I had to log immediately after every
flight or could just update periodically. He said periodically was fine.
Consequentely, my partner and I only update the logbook once a year at annual
inspection.

Jim Vincent
CFIG
N483SZ
illspam

At 17:06 29 March 2004, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Jim Vincent wrote:
Since the glider has no recording tach or Hobbs it's
been a habit of mine
for decades to keep the log in the glider where I can
keep it current after
each flight.


My glider is registered Experimental and the Operations
Limitations state that
the log book must be kept in the aircraft.

I specifically asked the FAA whether I had to log
immediately after every
flight or could just update periodically. He said
periodically was fine.
Consequentely, my partner and I only update the logbook
once a year at annual
inspection.

My operating limitations state: 'This aircraft shall
contain the
placards, markings, flight manual, etc., developed
for this aircraft.'

I recklessly fly without the flight manual in the glider!
Has anyone
been busted for doing this? If you carry it, have you
EVER referred to
it in flight? Is the German version acceptable, even
if I can't read
German? I imagine a pilot nearing Vne in a steepening
spiral, thumbing
through the pages, looking for G loadings with/without
spoilers open...

I DO carry all the 'etc.' with me, because they are
important.

--
-----
change 'netto' to 'net' to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA


The German version is actually the one you should be
carrying. If your manual is worded like mine it will
state that if in doubt you should always refer to the
German original which must be considered authoritative
. LS were actually helpful enough to provide a small
scale version of the German manual (presumably to make
it easier to fit in the space over the spar) It's a
mad world.

Ed, no one answered your "ramp check" question.

If you are ever subject to a ramp check, you only need to "show" your pilot
certificate, and medical if required for power aircraft. Show means that,
show it to them, do not hand it to them. They can ask for but you do not
have to provide them with the aircraft records nor look in the airplane
other through the windows unless you let them. Offer to bring log books etc
to their office at a later date.

They cannot delay you. If you have just landed, you need to get things put
away because you have an appointment to get to. If you are preparing to
launch in the glider, your next in line and their interrupting the all
important DI, an you are loosing the best part of the day.

BT

"Ed Byars" wrote in message
ink.net...
If I remember correctly (not too likely) the Manufacturer's Flight Manual
says something like " this manual must be keep in aircraft". Also upon
review I could find no specific Reg requiring aircraft log book to be in
aircraft. It is however, the first thing the Feds will request.
I know in power craft we never carry the paperwork/log briefcase in the
airplane. We even kid with friends making them promise to burn all the
records in case we crash.
Since the glider has no recording tach or Hobbs it's been a habit of mine
for decades to keep the log in the glider where I can keep it current
after
each flight.
I would like to check my op. limitations but they went with the glider.
Incidentally I used a small font, reducing Xerox, and both sides to
condense
the bulky multi page operating limitations to an almost illegible but a
neat
card or two for the cockpit. Same for most other paperwork.
It's interesting to speculate if the placards referring to cockpit weights
will suffice for the W&B requirement.
Also I've heard that we are required only to "show" the Paperwork, not
surrender it. Is this just for the license on a ramp check or for all
"paperwork"? I sure didn't have any choice when they removed everything
from
my glider in my absence. I feel sure they were within their rights.
Weren't
they?
Remember the FAA motto: We're not happy until you're not happy. I'm
kidding.........some of my best friends are with the FAA.


"Michael McNulty" wrote in message
news:6vF9c.6663$GH3.1276@fed1read07...

"Marc Ramsey" wrote in message
. com...
Michael McNulty wrote:
I am not aware that the flight manual is required to be in the
aircraft.
I
believe that all of the information that I am required to have on
board
is
contained on my placards (which are complete, including the weight
and
balance limits). The placards are what my operating limitations
address,
and as the aircraft is not certified, there is no such thing as an
"approved
flight manual".

Check you operating limitations again. Every set I've had has
included
a clause that requires carrying the manufacturers flight manual, along
with the placards.

Marc

I just double checked.

My operating limitations do say that I must have "the placards,
markings,
etc. required by 91.9" , but there is not any specific reference to the
flight manual. Since my aircraft is experimental, an "approved flight
manual" does not exist, and I fully believe that my placards meet the
requirements of 91.9 for "approved manual material, markings, and
placards
or any combination thereof". Again, the relevant document is the
aircraft's
particular operating limitations. My operating limitations do require a
specific placard that states the weight and balance limits, Vne, and Va.
(My operating limitations were issued in October 2001, and I believe
that
they follow the FAA inspectors handbook guidelines very closely.)

I suppose I could carry a copy of the manual, but I think I'm on pretty
solid ground without it.

91.9 and 21.5 of US CFR may be helpful.
I don't have a terribly clear idea how this applies
to experimentals, however, or even if 21.5 applies to
experimentals.

For regular ol' aircraft, IIRC before some date
(maybe the '80s?) the POH (AFM?) was fine, then after that,
one needed a manual with a serial number on it.

If anyone wants to illuminate us on the differences
between an AFM and a POH, you're smarter than me...

In article 6vF9c.6663$GH3.1276@fed1read07,
Michael McNulty wrote:

"Marc Ramsey" wrote in message
.com...
Michael McNulty wrote:
I am not aware that the flight manual is required to be in the aircraft.
I
believe that all of the information that I am required to have on board
is
contained on my placards (which are complete, including the weight and
balance limits). The placards are what my operating limitations
address,
and as the aircraft is not certified, there is no such thing as an
"approved
flight manual".

Check you operating limitations again. Every set I've had has included
a clause that requires carrying the manufacturers flight manual, along
with the placards.

Marc

I just double checked.

My operating limitations do say that I must have "the placards, markings,
etc. required by 91.9" , but there is not any specific reference to the
flight manual. Since my aircraft is experimental, an "approved flight
manual" does not exist, and I fully believe that my placards meet the
requirements of 91.9 for "approved manual material, markings, and placards
or any combination thereof". Again, the relevant document is the aircraft's
particular operating limitations. My operating limitations do require a
specific placard that states the weight and balance limits, Vne, and Va.
(My operating limitations were issued in October 2001, and I believe that
they follow the FAA inspectors handbook guidelines very closely.)

I suppose I could carry a copy of the manual, but I think I'm on pretty
solid ground without it.




--

------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA