Transporting water to glider

I Googled r.a.s and found posts about water beds, truck inner tubes and
collapsible plastic cubes from Wal-Mart. The plastic cubes will transport
50 gallons and fit inside my Jeep Grand Cherokee but nothing else will fit
and I don't want to unload the Jeep just for this chore. Full 10 gallon
water containers weigh more than 90 pounds and I don't like lifting that
much to pour it into the wing. I don't like water beds and inner tubes
either.

So, bright r.a.s people, how do you neatly and easily transport ballast
water to the glider if the gliderport doesn't have a tanker or water hoses
on the ramp? Once you get it there, how do you get it into the glider?

Bill Daniels

This is a common problem for us here in Arizona, with several fields we fly
at being dry.

Looking at our cross-country pilots, who fly ballasted most of the time, the
water storage/transport methods fall into the following three categories

1) Tanks of various shapes and sizes (rectangular and cylindrical), usually
mounted in the vehicle or truck bed and with capacities in the 50 to 100
gallon range.

2) Rigid plastic containers. The blue 7-gallon ones (available from
Mal-Wart) are a good compromise between capacity and ease of lifting.

3) Inflatable plastic containers (air beds), usually roof-mounted.

We drive our vehicles carrying the water up to the glider. The most common
filling method is gravity, with 12V electric pumps the second most common.
Most of use a vertical open-ended pressure-relief tube to avoid
over-pressure.

Several pilots evacuate their bags with vacuum pumps prior to filling them.

Hope this helps

Mike

ASW 20 WA

"Bill Daniels" wrote in message
news:G1Vjc.39485$cF6.1713298@attbi_s04...
I Googled r.a.s and found posts about water beds, truck inner tubes and
collapsible plastic cubes from Wal-Mart. The plastic cubes will transport
50 gallons and fit inside my Jeep Grand Cherokee but nothing else will fit
and I don't want to unload the Jeep just for this chore. Full 10 gallon
water containers weigh more than 90 pounds and I don't like lifting that
much to pour it into the wing. I don't like water beds and inner tubes
either.

So, bright r.a.s people, how do you neatly and easily transport ballast
water to the glider if the gliderport doesn't have a tanker or water hoses
on the ramp? Once you get it there, how do you get it into the glider?

Bill Daniels

Michael, Kilo Charlie and others, thanks for the info.

It looks like the air mattress is the best solution for me. Kilo Charlie's
tank and bilge pump is elegant but it requires a pick-up truck.

Does anybody have a specific recommendation for a air mattress and any
modifications that it will need?

Bill Daniels

"Michael Stringfellow" wrote in message
news:wqVjc.10615$6L3.3055@fed1read05...
This is a common problem for us here in Arizona, with several fields we
fly
at being dry.

Looking at our cross-country pilots, who fly ballasted most of the time,
the
water storage/transport methods fall into the following three categories

1) Tanks of various shapes and sizes (rectangular and cylindrical),
usually
mounted in the vehicle or truck bed and with capacities in the 50 to 100
gallon range.

2) Rigid plastic containers. The blue 7-gallon ones (available from
Mal-Wart) are a good compromise between capacity and ease of lifting.

3) Inflatable plastic containers (air beds), usually roof-mounted.

We drive our vehicles carrying the water up to the glider. The most
common
filling method is gravity, with 12V electric pumps the second most common.
Most of use a vertical open-ended pressure-relief tube to avoid
over-pressure.

Several pilots evacuate their bags with vacuum pumps prior to filling
them.

Hope this helps

Mike

ASW 20 WA

"Bill Daniels" wrote in message
news:G1Vjc.39485$cF6.1713298@attbi_s04...
I Googled r.a.s and found posts about water beds, truck inner tubes and
collapsible plastic cubes from Wal-Mart. The plastic cubes will
transport
50 gallons and fit inside my Jeep Grand Cherokee but nothing else will
fit
and I don't want to unload the Jeep just for this chore. Full 10 gallon
water containers weigh more than 90 pounds and I don't like lifting that
much to pour it into the wing. I don't like water beds and inner tubes
either.

So, bright r.a.s people, how do you neatly and easily transport ballast
water to the glider if the gliderport doesn't have a tanker or water
hoses
on the ramp? Once you get it there, how do you get it into the glider?

Bill Daniels

Bill Daniels wrote:

I Googled r.a.s and found posts about water beds, truck inner tubes and
collapsible plastic cubes from Wal-Mart. The plastic cubes will transport
50 gallons and fit inside my Jeep Grand Cherokee but nothing else will fit
and I don't want to unload the Jeep just for this chore. Full 10 gallon
water containers weigh more than 90 pounds and I don't like lifting that
much to pour it into the wing. I don't like water beds and inner tubes
either.

So, bright r.a.s people, how do you neatly and easily transport ballast
water to the glider if the gliderport doesn't have a tanker or water hoses
on the ramp? Once you get it there, how do you get it into the glider?

I've seen a couple glider trailers outfitted with tanks: some on top for
gravity fill; some underneath, for electric pump fill.

If the water is at the gliderport, but just not the ramp, buy a small
garden trailer (yard sale or Home depot) and put a tank on it. Rent it
to your fellow glider pilots, or loan it to them if they bring you water
when you ask for it.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

Bill Daniels wrote:

I Googled r.a.s and found posts about water beds, truck inner tubes and
collapsible plastic cubes from Wal-Mart. The plastic cubes will transport
50 gallons and fit inside my Jeep Grand Cherokee but nothing else will fit
and I don't want to unload the Jeep just for this chore. Full 10 gallon
water containers weigh more than 90 pounds and I don't like lifting that
much to pour it into the wing. I don't like water beds and inner tubes
either.

So, bright r.a.s people, how do you neatly and easily transport ballast
water to the glider if the gliderport doesn't have a tanker or water hoses
on the ramp? Once you get it there, how do you get it into the glider?

Bill Daniels

I picked up a 55 gal plastic drum from the biotech company I used to
work at (there are a few in Ft. Collins-including Heska). It has
openings in the top that can accept normal hose hardware with some
adapting. I carry it on its side in my truck bed (no leaks so far), and
use gravity to fill.
A word on gravity filling. Make sure you get the biggest ID hose you
can find, and don't get the kind with the anti-kink ribs. They kill the
flow rate-you can figure out how I know.
The drum contained glacial acetic acid, so it still has the faint odor
of vinegar. Standard practice (and the law) is that these need to be
thouroughly rinsed before disposal, so they're safe. The companies have
to pay to have them disposed of, so I got mine for free with a smile and
a thank you.

Shawn

In spite of your preference, I have been using a single bed camping air
mattress from Wal-Mart for years. I put it on top of my Jeep Grand Cherokee
and fill with gravity. Need a water bed filling kit to attach hose to the
receptacle. Roll it up when done and it's out of the way. Holds 40 gallons
easily---enough for my '27B

--
Hartley Falbaum
"Bill Daniels" wrote in message
news:G1Vjc.39485$cF6.1713298@attbi_s04...
I Googled r.a.s and found posts about water beds, truck inner tubes and
collapsible plastic cubes from Wal-Mart. The plastic cubes will transport
50 gallons and fit inside my Jeep Grand Cherokee but nothing else will fit
and I don't want to unload the Jeep just for this chore. Full 10 gallon
water containers weigh more than 90 pounds and I don't like lifting that
much to pour it into the wing. I don't like water beds and inner tubes
either.

So, bright r.a.s people, how do you neatly and easily transport ballast
water to the glider if the gliderport doesn't have a tanker or water hoses
on the ramp? Once you get it there, how do you get it into the glider?

Bill Daniels

"HL Falbaum" wrote in message
news:GjXjc.9465$lz5.929079@attbi_s53...
In spite of your preference, I have been using a single bed camping air
mattress from Wal-Mart for years. I put it on top of my Jeep Grand
Cherokee
and fill with gravity. Need a water bed filling kit to attach hose to the
receptacle. Roll it up when done and it's out of the way. Holds 40 gallons
easily---enough for my '27B


I just measured the top of my Grand Cherokee and it is 37" across between
the roof rack rails and 57" long with the rack crossbars as far apart as
possible. Do you remember which air mattress you use?

BTW, I checked water beds and all I find are 84" long.

Bill Daniels

To be specific
I use a "Ozark Trail" brand twin size air mattress from Wal-Mart part Num
68957
75" x 37.5" x 7.5" inflated size
The large "exhaust" valve has screw-on thread that fits water bed filling
kit.
It has a velour side for non scratching of car top.
It is nowhere near full at 40 gal, as I routinely fill to 50 "just in case".
I have had occasional "disconnects" in the line and lost some. I think it
would hold more--Let's see----75 x 37.5 x 7.5 = 21,093.75 cu in or 12.207 cu
ft. At 7.48 gal per cu ft that's 91 gal.
I put the hose end under the rear crossbar, and drape the fwd end over the
fwd crossbar. The water flows nicely till nearly empty, then I must fold the
forward part to the rear and so on.
The number from the bar code is 78257 68957
I bought a spare and I am reading from the package. As I recall, the cost
was less than 25 USD at Wal-Mart.

Hope this helps

--
Hartley Falbaum
ASW 27B "KF" USA

"Bill Daniels" wrote in message
news:3hckc.16977$RE1.1449581@attbi_s54...

"HL Falbaum" wrote in message
news:GjXjc.9465$lz5.929079@attbi_s53...
In spite of your preference, I have been using a single bed camping air
mattress from Wal-Mart for years. I put it on top of my Jeep Grand
Cherokee
and fill with gravity. Need a water bed filling kit to attach hose to
the
receptacle. Roll it up when done and it's out of the way. Holds 40
gallons
easily---enough for my '27B


I just measured the top of my Grand Cherokee and it is 37" across between
the roof rack rails and 57" long with the rack crossbars as far apart as
possible. Do you remember which air mattress you use?

BTW, I checked water beds and all I find are 84" long.

Bill Daniels

"HL Falbaum" wrote in message
news:GjXjc.9465$lz5.929079@attbi_s53...
In spite of your preference, I have been using a single bed camping air
mattress from Wal-Mart for years. I put it on top of my Jeep Grand
Cherokee
and fill with gravity. Need a water bed filling kit to attach hose to the
receptacle. Roll it up when done and it's out of the way. Holds 40 gallons
easily---enough for my '27B


I'm rapidly coming around to your solution. My guess is that you are using
the 'Coleman's Kid's Air Mattress' ($12 @ Wall-Mart) that is 28" x 59"x 6"
which will hold about 40 gallons and neatly fits on the roof of the Grand
Cherokee.

However, somewhat belatedly, I just did the W&B on the Nimbus 2C with regard
to water ballast. At the 1433 pound MTOW I will need 500 pounds of ballast
or 60 gallons. The CG moves slightly forward from the current 80% aft
position. (Now I know why the POH specifies 51 PSI in the main tire.)

So, the Kids Mattress isn't going to do it with one trip to the water hole.
Anybody know of a slightly larger waterbed/air mattress?

Bill Daniels

"Bill Daniels" wrote in message
news:Z%dkc.17643$lz5.1406385@attbi_s53...

"HL Falbaum" wrote in message
news:GjXjc.9465$lz5.929079@attbi_s53...
In spite of your preference, I have been using a single bed camping air
mattress from Wal-Mart for years. I put it on top of my Jeep Grand
Cherokee
and fill with gravity. Need a water bed filling kit to attach hose to
the
receptacle. Roll it up when done and it's out of the way. Holds 40
gallons
easily---enough for my '27B


I'm rapidly coming around to your solution. My guess is that you are
using
the 'Coleman's Kid's Air Mattress' ($12 @ Wall-Mart) that is 28" x 59"x 6"
which will hold about 40 gallons and neatly fits on the roof of the Grand
Cherokee.

However, somewhat belatedly, I just did the W&B on the Nimbus 2C with
regard
to water ballast. At the 1433 pound MTOW I will need 500 pounds of
ballast
or 60 gallons. The CG moves slightly forward from the current 80% aft
position. (Now I know why the POH specifies 51 PSI in the main tire.)

So, the Kids Mattress isn't going to do it with one trip to the water
hole.
Anybody know of a slightly larger waterbed/air mattress?

Bill Daniels
Hey Bill,
Maybe buy two of 'em and stck 'em up.
'Course you could try puttinng on 50-100 pounds, then you wouldn't need so
much ballast.
Cheers!, Pete
(Still having withdrawal pains)