ELT Mandatory ?

Dear Ladies and Gentlemen of gliding,

Please consider carefully. What is our nature? Individual;
or care from cradle to the grave?

Equipment should be pilot's choice, with pilot weighing
risks and outcome potentials.

Further, if pilot does not return from a gliding flight
let the contest management rest at ease knowing the
pilot has made the choice;
and it is not management's responsibility for search
and rescue or body recovery.

Yes, it is ok. Just say that up front and openly and
act accordingly.

Personal Responsibility/Personal Choice -

Let us affirm and uphold personal responsibility and
personal choice in gliding flight, and in our other
choices in life or death or risk or adventures.

Is this concept too individual now?

Is this the day of cradle-to-the-grave governance?

Is this the day when it seems your interests are other-folk's-resp
onsibilities
because they can manage your choices with
more right than you?

Is this the day when others can care for you and control
you and manage for you and decide for you and regulate
for you ?

Do you join that Careful Attention and Governance by
others for you?

Live free or die. Dont tread on me. These were and
are founding concepts of this land.

This is a land of individual right and opportunity.

Kindly, keep it that way.

Dont matter if they find my body sooner
or very very
very much later, or never. My body be dead.

If my body be alive, I will take my chances in survival
if any.
My choice. My outcomes. I live or die by that.

Kindly considered.

Dancing on clouds,

Keep it up!

Jim

Purchased my own ELT after I was skiing in on a resort I came out on to the
main ski runs at night I took the wrong turn.

I fly with it through my parachute.

When 4 wheel driving I take it.

Cost me $279 AU with postage.

Mal



"Jim Culp" wrote in message
...


Dear Ladies and Gentlemen of gliding,

Please consider carefully. What is our nature? Individual;
or care from cradle to the grave?

Equipment should be pilot's choice, with pilot weighing
risks and outcome potentials.

Further, if pilot does not return from a gliding flight
let the contest management rest at ease knowing the
pilot has made the choice;
and it is not management's responsibility for search
and rescue or body recovery.

Yes, it is ok. Just say that up front and openly and
act accordingly.

Personal Responsibility/Personal Choice -

Let us affirm and uphold personal responsibility and
personal choice in gliding flight, and in our other
choices in life or death or risk or adventures.

Is this concept too individual now?

Is this the day of cradle-to-the-grave governance?

Is this the day when it seems your interests are other-folk's-resp
onsibilities
because they can manage your choices with
more right than you?

Is this the day when others can care for you and control
you and manage for you and decide for you and regulate
for you ?

Do you join that Careful Attention and Governance by
others for you?

Live free or die. Dont tread on me. These were and
are founding concepts of this land.

This is a land of individual right and opportunity.

Kindly, keep it that way.

Dont matter if they find my body sooner
or very very
very much later, or never. My body be dead.

If my body be alive, I will take my chances in survival
if any.
My choice. My outcomes. I live or die by that.

Kindly considered.

Dancing on clouds,

Keep it up!

Jim

Right on!!!!!
Cheers!, Pete
"Jim Culp" wrote in message
...


Dear Ladies and Gentlemen of gliding,

Please consider carefully. What is our nature? Individual;
or care from cradle to the grave?

Equipment should be pilot's choice, with pilot weighing
risks and outcome potentials.

Further, if pilot does not return from a gliding flight
let the contest management rest at ease knowing the
pilot has made the choice;
and it is not management's responsibility for search
and rescue or body recovery.

Yes, it is ok. Just say that up front and openly and
act accordingly.

Personal Responsibility/Personal Choice -

Let us affirm and uphold personal responsibility and
personal choice in gliding flight, and in our other
choices in life or death or risk or adventures.

Is this concept too individual now?

Is this the day of cradle-to-the-grave governance?

Is this the day when it seems your interests are other-folk's-resp
onsibilities
because they can manage your choices with
more right than you?

Is this the day when others can care for you and control
you and manage for you and decide for you and regulate
for you ?

Do you join that Careful Attention and Governance by
others for you?

Live free or die. Dont tread on me. These were and
are founding concepts of this land.

This is a land of individual right and opportunity.

Kindly, keep it that way.

Dont matter if they find my body sooner
or very very
very much later, or never. My body be dead.

If my body be alive, I will take my chances in survival
if any.
My choice. My outcomes. I live or die by that.

Kindly considered.

Dancing on clouds,

Keep it up!

Jim

Jim indicated that it is his choice whether or not to carry an ELT, and it is
NOT the contest manager's responsibility to search and rescue, or body
recovery. The fact is that when a plane or boat goes missing, a whole lot of
assets and efforts go into trying to help / rescue the crew. That being said,
and since it is the individual pilot's responsibility to deny or accept
assistance, let all those pilots who opt NOT to be helped to have this
preference down in writing, notarized, etc...This in order to absolve everybody
else in the case of a mishap. We are a litigious society, and you can bet that
failing that, the grieving widow and children will sue the CAP, the local
sheriff, fire department, the contest organizers and manager and anyone else
within reach for noth having found the body sooner when there was still a
chance that the pilot might have been alive at the time of the accident.

Cheers anyhow,

Charles

Vorsanger1 wrote:
Jim indicated that it is his choice whether or not to carry an ELT, and it is
NOT the contest manager's responsibility to search and rescue, or body
recovery. The fact is that when a plane or boat goes missing, a whole lot of
assets and efforts go into trying to help / rescue the crew. That being said,
and since it is the individual pilot's responsibility to deny or accept
assistance, let all those pilots who opt NOT to be helped to have this
preference down in writing, notarized, etc...This in order to absolve everybody
else in the case of a mishap.

I"m trying to imagine the publicity the sport might receive if a glider
crashed, and the organizers did nothing. Would that seem bizarre to the
public?

"The pilot requested we do nothing if he did not return", stated the
contest official, "and particularly not alert search and rescue people
or the police". "Of course, we hope he is enjoying himself, whereever he
might be", continued the contest official, who asked to remain
anonymouus, as requested by the missing pilot on his entry form.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

While I have some sympathy for Jim Culp's position
as an abstract philosophical position, and would not
want to hinder him from practicing it as he sees fit,
it applies in both directions. If contest organizers
feel an ELT is important enough to be mandatory, they
can demand it as an exercise of their individual and
collective responsibility; Jim can then choose to ignore
the contest, but should not whine about the rules.

Ian



At 06:12 18 June 2004, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Vorsanger1 wrote:
Jim indicated that it is his choice whether or not
to carry an ELT, and it is
NOT the contest manager's responsibility to search
and rescue, or body
recovery. The fact is that when a plane or boat goes
missing, a whole lot of
assets and efforts go into trying to help / rescue
the crew. That being said,
and since it is the individual pilot's responsibility
to deny or accept
assistance, let all those pilots who opt NOT to be
helped to have this
preference down in writing, notarized, etc...This
in order to absolve everybody
else in the case of a mishap.

I'm trying to imagine the publicity the sport might
receive if a glider
crashed, and the organizers did nothing. Would that
seem bizarre to the
public?

'The pilot requested we do nothing if he did not
return', stated the
contest official, 'and particularly not alert search
and rescue people
or the police'. 'Of course, we hope he is enjoying
himself, whereever he
might be', continued the contest official, who asked
to remain
anonymouus, as requested by the missing pilot on his
entry form.

--
Change 'netto' to 'net' to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

This morning CNN reported the drownings of 4 people. A small child
fell into a fountain. A rescuer followed her immediately. As did
another. And another. All were killed by a circulation pump that
pinned them to the bottom.

This is a cautionary tale. Some, like the previous poster, would say
the moral is "Look before your leap." Others might recognize that it
is in our primal nature to risk our lives to save others.

The lesson I've learned is that while I may be harwired to demonstrate
bravado through lack of concern for my own welfare, I should at the
very least consider those who are hardwired to respond to any call for
help. And a glider which doesn't return home carries with it an
implied call for help.

Joseph Campbell discussed this "need to help," even at risk to one's
own well-being, in The Hero with a Thousand Faces and The Power of
Myth. Both are interesting reads -- and emphasize just how dear such
people really are.

To sum up, since this is only a brief return to the group, if you
believe it is important to consider the safety of others, install the
best ELT (406) you can find. If you want to enhance your own safety,
consider a GPS PLB. But recognize the limitations of each, and
especially the 121.5 MHz units.

Absolutely! Well said Jim.

In article , Jim Culp
wrote:


Dear Ladies and Gentlemen of gliding,

Please consider carefully. What is our nature? Individual;
or care from cradle to the grave?

Equipment should be pilot's choice, with pilot weighing
risks and outcome potentials.

Jim you have a good point that it is the pilot's choice. But at a
contest the Organizers are required to make every effort to locate you,
so they should be given the best chance of doing so. It may not be your
problem when all is said and done, but a lot of people, including family
members and those soaring friends that might want to spend hours/days
searching the ridges of the appalachians (or swamps of Florida), would
definitely appreciate you investing in one more piece of equipment.
Compared to the hardships that could be endured, an ELT is a simple
investment. Just re-read John Good's reports from Mifflin and consider
what those searchers would still be going through had they not known
where to look for Peter.
And even for non-contest pilots this is an important consideration. If
you are out by yourself on a x-country flight, who is going to know
where to look in case something goes wrong. Those of us that fly in
terrain such as the appalachians have definitely had the reason for
flying with ELTs brought to our attention over and over. But its also a
good thing to have installed for those that fly in any terrain.

Thank you KG, UH and others for making those many safety talks about the
advantages of having an ELT installed and how best to install them in
the various types of gliders.

Dirk

Asw-20 "E" - yes ELT equipped



Wallace Berry wrote:

Absolutely! Well said Jim.

In article , Jim Culp
wrote:




Dear Ladies and Gentlemen of gliding,

Please consider carefully. What is our nature? Individual;
or care from cradle to the grave?

Equipment should be pilot's choice, with pilot weighing
risks and outcome potentials.

Dirk Elber wrote in message

Thank you KG, UH and others for making those many safety talks about the
advantages of having an ELT installed and how best to install them in
the various types of gliders.

I'm sure that the fact that KG and UH sell these things has no bearing
on the matter at all, eh?

RD