Dg400 rigging tips

Guys, I'm a new DG400 owner, and was wondering if there are any tips or suggestions that others have learned to help rigging. My ship came with an electric self rigger with remote, and the first time I used it I got the wings on with little problem. Today was a different story, not only did it take considerable time to get the wings in, but than I fought the spar pins for a while before throwing in the towel, figuring it just wasn't my day! Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Steve Cameron

1) Pay attention to how high the main tire is above the ground (while on the cradle) before you start. I noticed that if the tire is less than or equal to 1.5 inches from the ground, wing install goes better. If the fuselage is higher than that (2+ inches), it goes badly. I'm not sure why. I think the extra pitch up attitude of the nose causes a tortional misalignment that requires more force to overcome. I would have thought that once the wings were flush with the fuselage seated in the lift pins then the tortional orientation couldn't be an issue. Anyway, by simply lowering the cradle to get the tire closer to the ground almost always fixed my problem - even though there was no apparent change in the wing gaps and hole alignments.

2) Use your "eyes" to align the spar holes first. If you can 'see' a misalignment, there is no amount of force you can apply to the pin to fix it.

3) If you see a misalignment of the spar holes in the vertical direction (so the assumption here is that the wings are tight against the fuselage and the fore/aft alignment is good), I have found that raising or lowering the CRADLE did a better job of aligning the holes than to raise or lower one of the wings. When you go out to the wing tip and "fix" wing height, you almost always cause the wing to pull out slightly or cause a misalignment fore/aft at the root (so you fixed one problem, but created one or two others). (This will be less of an issue for you with the electric rigger). However, using the cradle doesn't cause that problem at all, it is the ultimate fine adjustment knob. I like to assemble my wings so that the fuselage is a smidge too high when the wings are in, such that I have to lower the cradle to fix the gap. Because both wing roots are being lowered, gravity is helping keep the wings nice an tight against the fuselage as the cradle lowers. Hope that made sense.

On Tuesday, February 27, 2018 at 8:47:49 PM UTC-5, Dirk_PW wrote:
1) Pay attention to how high the main tire is above the ground (while on the cradle) before you start. I noticed that if the tire is less than or equal to 1.5 inches from the ground, wing install goes better. If the fuselage is higher than that (2+ inches), it goes badly. I'm not sure why. I think the extra pitch up attitude of the nose causes a tortional misalignment that requires more force to overcome. I would have thought that once the wings were flush with the fuselage seated in the lift pins then the tortional orientation couldn't be an issue. Anyway, by simply lowering the cradle to get the tire closer to the ground almost always fixed my problem - even though there was no apparent change in the wing gaps and hole alignments.

2) Use your "eyes" to align the spar holes first. If you can 'see' a misalignment, there is no amount of force you can apply to the pin to fix it.

3) If you see a misalignment of the spar holes in the vertical direction (so the assumption here is that the wings are tight against the fuselage and the fore/aft alignment is good), I have found that raising or lowering the CRADLE did a better job of aligning the holes than to raise or lower one of the wings. When you go out to the wing tip and "fix" wing height, you almost always cause the wing to pull out slightly or cause a misalignment fore/aft at the root (so you fixed one problem, but created one or two others).. (This will be less of an issue for you with the electric rigger). However, using the cradle doesn't cause that problem at all, it is the ultimate fine adjustment knob. I like to assemble my wings so that the fuselage is a smidge too high when the wings are in, such that I have to lower the cradle to fix the gap. Because both wing roots are being lowered, gravity is helping keep the wings nice an tight against the fuselage as the cradle lowers. Hope that made sense.

Dirk, thank for yours & others comments, I'll see how thing go this weekend.. I had also gotten into the habit of having the main extended, and very close to the ground, but not touching. Several times yesterday while fighting to get the wings in I noticed the main had lowered to the ground, so it seems I've got a hydraulic foot pump that doesn't quite hold pressure. Because of this it makes sense to me to begin rigging with the fuselage and cradle in its lowest position, so at least I'm starting from a consistent position. I have used self riggers in the past, and a good friend suggested it will take some time to learn the right positioning, etc.
Steve

Originally Posted by Steve Cameron

On Tuesday, February 27, 2018 at 8:47:49 PM UTC-5, Dirk_PW wrote:
1) Pay attention to how high the main tire is above the ground (while on the cradle) before you start. I noticed that if the tire is less than or equal to 1.5 inches from the ground, wing install goes better. If the fuselage is higher than that (2+ inches), it goes badly. I'm not sure why. I think the extra pitch up attitude of the nose causes a tortional misalignment that requires more force to overcome. I would have thought that once the wings were flush with the fuselage seated in the lift pins then the tortional orientation couldn't be an issue. Anyway, by simply lowering the cradle to get the tire closer to the ground almost always fixed my problem - even though there was no apparent change in the wing gaps and hole alignments.

2) Use your "eyes" to align the spar holes first. If you can 'see' a misalignment, there is no amount of force you can apply to the pin to fix it.

3) If you see a misalignment of the spar holes in the vertical direction (so the assumption here is that the wings are tight against the fuselage and the fore/aft alignment is good), I have found that raising or lowering the CRADLE did a better job of aligning the holes than to raise or lower one of the wings. When you go out to the wing tip and "fix" wing height, you almost always cause the wing to pull out slightly or cause a misalignment fore/aft at the root (so you fixed one problem, but created one or two others).. (This will be less of an issue for you with the electric rigger). However, using the cradle doesn't cause that problem at all, it is the ultimate fine adjustment knob. I like to assemble my wings so that the fuselage is a smidge too high when the wings are in, such that I have to lower the cradle to fix the gap. Because both wing roots are being lowered, gravity is helping keep the wings nice an tight against the fuselage as the cradle lowers. Hope that made sense.

Dirk, thank for yours & others comments, I'll see how thing go this weekend.. I had also gotten into the habit of having the main extended, and very close to the ground, but not touching. Several times yesterday while fighting to get the wings in I noticed the main had lowered to the ground, so it seems I've got a hydraulic foot pump that doesn't quite hold pressure. Because of this it makes sense to me to begin rigging with the fuselage and cradle in its lowest position, so at least I'm starting from a consistent position. I have used self riggers in the past, and a good friend suggested it will take some time to learn the right positioning, etc.
Steve

Hi Steve. With regards to rigging on a cradle with the jack leaking down, it's probably a good idea to leave the wheel up until the wings are on. It also means you can start lower if need be. I do this with my Nimbus 3D, club Duo and various other gliders that have polyhedral. Helps to keep the tip lower as well.

I've heard of fuselages toppling over with a leaking down jack resulting in a broken canopy

I've flown a DG 400 some years ago and loved it

:-) Colin

On Wednesday, February 28, 2018 at 4:41:12 AM UTC-8, Steve Cameron wrote:
On Tuesday, February 27, 2018 at 8:47:49 PM UTC-5, Dirk_PW wrote:
1) Pay attention to how high the main tire is above the ground (while on the cradle) before you start. I noticed that if the tire is less than or equal to 1.5 inches from the ground, wing install goes better. If the fuselage is higher than that (2+ inches), it goes badly. I'm not sure why. I think the extra pitch up attitude of the nose causes a tortional misalignment that requires more force to overcome. I would have thought that once the wings were flush with the fuselage seated in the lift pins then the tortional orientation couldn't be an issue. Anyway, by simply lowering the cradle to get the tire closer to the ground almost always fixed my problem - even though there was no apparent change in the wing gaps and hole alignments.

2) Use your "eyes" to align the spar holes first. If you can 'see' a misalignment, there is no amount of force you can apply to the pin to fix it.

3) If you see a misalignment of the spar holes in the vertical direction (so the assumption here is that the wings are tight against the fuselage and the fore/aft alignment is good), I have found that raising or lowering the CRADLE did a better job of aligning the holes than to raise or lower one of the wings. When you go out to the wing tip and "fix" wing height, you almost always cause the wing to pull out slightly or cause a misalignment fore/aft at the root (so you fixed one problem, but created one or two others). (This will be less of an issue for you with the electric rigger). However, using the cradle doesn't cause that problem at all, it is the ultimate fine adjustment knob. I like to assemble my wings so that the fuselage is a smidge too high when the wings are in, such that I have to lower the cradle to fix the gap. Because both wing roots are being lowered, gravity is helping keep the wings nice an tight against the fuselage as the cradle lowers. Hope that made sense.

Dirk, thank for yours & others comments, I'll see how thing go this weekend. I had also gotten into the habit of having the main extended, and very close to the ground, but not touching. Several times yesterday while fighting to get the wings in I noticed the main had lowered to the ground, so it seems I've got a hydraulic foot pump that doesn't quite hold pressure. Because of this it makes sense to me to begin rigging with the fuselage and cradle in its lowest position, so at least I'm starting from a consistent position. I have used self riggers in the past, and a good friend suggested it will take some time to learn the right positioning, etc.
Steve

I forgot a couple of things:
1. You can use the position of the spar butt to judge the dihedral of the wing by its position on the opposite side of the spar tunnel. Nominally, it will have an equal gap between the top and bottom of the tunnel, but you can mark the actual position immediately after pulling the pins (I use some wing tape & a permanent marker).
2. Often times you will get a single pin in, only to find the second pin needs some vertical adjustment. Do this with the fuselage jack.

While it is always a good idea to grease the pins, doing this WILL NOT solve a misalignment problem. When you assemble with helpers, they can just wiggle the wing tips until they randomly find the correct alignment. This method WILL NOT work when you self-assemble, you MUST be methodical and have a procedure where you can detect what is out of alignment and correct it.

Tom

On Tuesday, February 27, 2018 at 2:56:26 PM UTC-8, Steve Cameron wrote:
Guys, I'm a new DG400 owner, and was wondering if there are any tips or suggestions that others have learned to help rigging. My ship came with an electric self rigger with remote, and the first time I used it I got the wings on with little problem. Today was a different story, not only did it take considerable time to get the wings in, but than I fought the spar pins for a while before throwing in the towel, figuring it just wasn't my day! Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Steve Cameron

I have a a DG-200 with short lift pins. Putting the first wing in I have to put the rear pins in first. I made a cam tool to hold the wing in place so putting in the left wing doesn't knock the right wing out. I don't think this is an issue with later models. With the first (right) wing in the spar stub is not centered but low in the opposite side opening. After putting the second wing in place, rear lift pins first again, if the mains pin holes don't line up I push or pull on the fin to twist the fuselage to change the misalignment of the holes. (my trailer has a fixed height on the cradle.) I also have a cam tool to pull the main pin holes into alignment. In the past I made and sold these tools. They are now should be available from MM Fabrication https://www.mmfabrication.com/
Hope this helps,
Steve
450+ DG-200 assemblies

Steve, Congrats on your new DG-400 -- wonderful glider, and to me, the real "sweet spot" in the price/performance continuum for self-launchers. I have DG-400 No. 150 from 1985 and assemble alone with a home-built rigger. Dirk's points above, especially numbers 2 and 3 are spot on. The other thing that is critical when putting the wings on is that the gap between wing root and fuselage is parallel -- I use a couple of fingers inserted into this gap as a visual gauge, then adjust the wing fore or aft to get the gap even. If this is even slightly off, it displaces the lift pins relative to their sockets and the wing won't join up. I put the right wing on first, then tape the gap on the top surface, leaving the roll hanging so I can finish taping the underside of the wing later. This keeps the wing from sliding out while I'm installing the left wing. Like Dirk, I then use the manual crank on my ramp to adjust the height of the fuselage, until the spar holes on one side are visually aligned. When I have this right, the pin slides in smoothly without any significant force. Then I go back to the crank and change the fuse height until the other pair of spar holes are aligned, and insert the other pin. You will learn to recognize when it all looks just right, and I prefer to take a few more moments to get it right visually than to try to force things. While you are securing the pins, check the soundness of the small spring-loaded pins that lock the handles into place: there's been an instance of one of these failing, resulting in a spar pin working it's way out during flight.

The Yahoo Group "DG Owners" is the main online resource for owners of 400's and 800's and there is a real "brain trust' there, eager to help out -- I can't recommend it too highly.

Enjoy!

Paul Villinski,
NYC

On Tuesday, February 27, 2018 at 2:56:26 PM UTC-8, Steve Cameron wrote:
Guys, I'm a new DG400 owner, and was wondering if there are any tips or suggestions that others have learned to help rigging. My ship came with an electric self rigger with remote, and the first time I used it I got the wings on with little problem. Today was a different story, not only did it take considerable time to get the wings in, but than I fought the spar pins for a while before throwing in the towel, figuring it just wasn't my day! Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Steve Cameron

The key to easy assembly of the 400 is alignment - if the wings are out of alignment no amount of pushing, hammering or swearing is going to get the spar pins in. As Paul mentioned, the wings need to be parallel to the fuselage, but that is not the only factor. The wing dihedral must also be correct.. You can check this by looking at the gap between the wing root and the fuse: it must be the same on the top and bottom. If it isn't, raise or lower the wing to get it the same (you can also raise or lower the fuselage, but only for the first wing). Just because the wing gap looks on the top side doesn't mean that the vertical (dihedral) is correct: you must also look on the bottom side.
Once both wings are in the gaps look good, I check spar bushing alignment be my special feeler gauge tool: my finger. Of course, you will be able to see gross misalignments visually, but this will not get you the whole way. If they have even the slightest misalignment, you will be able to feel it with your finger. Just rub it back and forth over the joint.
What needs correction depends upon where you feel a misalignment. If it is on the sides of the bushing, one of the wings (or both) need a fore/aft correction. If it is on the top or bottom, one or both of the wings need a vertical adjustment. The first time you go thru this just pick a direction and see if it makes the gap better or worse; if worse you went the wrong way.
I showed this method to another 400 owner who was having a similar experience to yours. He said he had his pins dripping in grease and they still wouldn't go in. I had him go thru this procedure with my dry pins and, once everything was in alignment, the pins slid in with next to no effort.

Tom

One thing i always suggest when a glider is difficult to rig is to clean
and regrease the pins and their fittings. I've seen people struggling for
ages, they do that and everything just slips together.

Chris

At 05:15 28 February 2018, 2G wrote:
On Tuesday, February 27, 2018 at 2:56:26 PM UTC-8, Steve Cameron wrote:
Guys, I'm a new DG400 owner, and was wondering if there are any tips or
s=
uggestions that others have learned to help rigging. My ship came with an
e=
lectric self rigger with remote, and the first time I used it I got the
win=
gs on with little problem. Today was a different story, not only did it
tak=
e considerable time to get the wings in, but than I fought the spar pins
fo=
r a while before throwing in the towel, figuring it just wasn't my day!
An=
y suggestions?
Thanks,
Steve Cameron

The key to easy assembly of the 400 is alignment - if the wings are out
of
=
alignment no amount of pushing, hammering or swearing is going to get the
s=
par pins in. As Paul mentioned, the wings need to be parallel to the
fusela=
ge, but that is not the only factor. The wing dihedral must also be
correct=
.. You can check this by looking at the gap between the wing root and the
fu=
se: it must be the same on the top and bottom. If it isn't, raise or
lower
=
the wing to get it the same (you can also raise or lower the fuselage,
but
=
only for the first wing). Just because the wing gap looks on the top side
d=
oesn't mean that the vertical (dihedral) is correct: you must also look
on
=
the bottom side.
Once both wings are in the gaps look good, I check spar bushing alignment
b=
e my special feeler gauge tool: my finger. Of course, you will be able to
s=
ee gross misalignments visually, but this will not get you the whole way.
I=
f they have even the slightest misalignment, you will be able to feel it
wi=
th your finger. Just rub it back and forth over the joint.
What needs correction depends upon where you feel a misalignment. If it
is
=
on the sides of the bushing, one of the wings (or both) need a fore/aft
cor=
rection. If it is on the top or bottom, one or both of the wings need a
ver=
tical adjustment. The first time you go thru this just pick a direction
and=
see if it makes the gap better or worse; if worse you went the wrong
way.=
=20
I showed this method to another 400 owner who was having a similar
experien=
ce to yours. He said he had his pins dripping in grease and they still
woul=
dn't go in. I had him go thru this procedure with my dry pins and, once
eve=
rything was in alignment, the pins slid in with next to no effort.

Tom

I have owner a number of DG gliders including a DG400 and never have
any problems...

As Chris said, make sure its well greased, then fit one wing in place and
adjust the tip height to make sure the spar tip is relatively central as
it
emerges from the other height.

You can get a tool on some of the DG's to keep that wing in place whilst
you fit the other wing...

The next bit is key...

Ask the person on the wing he is holding to lift or lower so that the
opposite hole is about lined up and push that main pin as far in as it will

go... it probably won't go in fully, but don't worry...

THEN look at the other hole and ask him to again raise or lower his tip
until it is lined up and put the second pin in... with brief minor
adjustments it will go straight in... As you do so, push in the center of
the pin with one hand whilst rotating the handle a bit with the other.

Once that pin is in, you will find that the other pin will then push
straight
in also...

It works... I have been doing it this way on DG202, DG400, DG800 and
now DG808 for 28 years..!..

Craig

At 08:15 28 February 2018, Chris Rowland wrote:
One thing i always suggest when a glider is difficult to rig is to clea
and regrease the pins and their fittings. I've seen people struggling fo
ages, they do that and everything just slips together.

Chris

At 05:15 28 February 2018, 2G wrote:
On Tuesday, February 27, 2018 at 2:56:26 PM UTC-8, Steve
Cameron wrote:
Guys, I'm a new DG400 owner, and was wondering if there are any
tips or
s=
uggestions that others have learned to help rigging. My ship came
with an
e=
lectric self rigger with remote, and the first time I used it I got the
win=
gs on with little problem. Today was a different story, not only did it
tak=
e considerable time to get the wings in, but than I fought the spar
pins
fo=
r a while before throwing in the towel, figuring it just wasn't my day!
An=
y suggestions?
Thanks,
Steve Cameron

The key to easy assembly of the 400 is alignment - if the wings are
ou
of
=
alignment no amount of pushing, hammering or swearing is going to
get the
s=
par pins in. As Paul mentioned, the wings need to be parallel to the
fusela=
ge, but that is not the only factor. The wing dihedral must also be
correct=
.. You can check this by looking at the gap between the wing root
and the
fu=
se: it must be the same on the top and bottom. If it isn't, raise o
lower
=
the wing to get it the same (you can also raise or lower the fuselage
but
=
only for the first wing). Just because the wing gap looks on the top
side
d=
oesn't mean that the vertical (dihedral) is correct: you must also loo
on
=
the bottom side.
Once both wings are in the gaps look good, I check spar bushing
alignment
b=
e my special feeler gauge tool: my finger. Of course, you will be able
to
s=
ee gross misalignments visually, but this will not get you the whole
way.
I=
f they have even the slightest misalignment, you will be able to feel it
wi=
th your finger. Just rub it back and forth over the joint.
What needs correction depends upon where you feel a misalignment.
If i
is
=
on the sides of the bushing, one of the wings (or both) need a
fore/aft
cor=
rection. If it is on the top or bottom, one or both of the wings need a
ver=
tical adjustment. The first time you go thru this just pick a direction
and=
see if it makes the gap better or worse; if worse you went the wron
way.=
=20
I showed this method to another 400 owner who was having a similar
experien=
ce to yours. He said he had his pins dripping in grease and they still
woul=
dn't go in. I had him go thru this procedure with my dry pins and,
once
eve=
rything was in alignment, the pins slid in with next to no effort.

Tom